Sullivan, 1907, on himself vs. Jeffries

Johnson not only talked to Corbett and Jeffries during his fight with Jeff ,he threw a few asides to" Cap'n John" too.
Corbett and Sullivan disliked each other intensely.
When Sullivan arrived at Jeffries camp and saw Corbett he said "if you're running the camp ,I don't want to see him," he had to be prevailed upon to stay.

Sullivan was no better or worse than most men of his times regarding the colour bar. Corbett was a racist. I don't think Jefries had the imagination to think about it too much ,only in the context of being fearful not to take a chance on losing to a black man ,and ,thereby losing the adoration of his worshipping public.Fitz was not a racist, Burns was ,so was Hart,and OBrien.
I would pick Jeffries over Sully.

 

This is certainly interesting. Old Fogey has that article which mentions wins over Denver Ed Martin and Frank Childs. but this looks to even pre date this.

Of course it is a bit of a two edged sword. If more fights are discovered, it takes away a little bit of the impressiveniss of his fast rise through the ranks. And there is also the danger of finding a pesky KO on his record, which would harm his record.

 

If someone can prove Jeffries defeated both Martin and Childs, I will move him into my top 10 heavyweights of all time list. For he would have done something Jack Dempsey failed to do, clean out both the top white and black contenders of his day(Griffen, Armstrong, Childs, Martin) in a racially filled era. Although I still think he wasted his last defense on Munroe instead of Johnson.

 

What about if at the same time they discover Jeannete and McVey had extra fights ?

 

Johnson himself said derogatory things about black people. I think the heavyweight championship back then was something like a private club. Not everyone was invited in.

However outside of boxing, things were different. Jeffries did enjoy the company of some black Americans, most notably Bob Armstrong. Johnson himself seems to interact rather well with the white crowd outside of the ring.

 

The date of this article I mentioned does intrigue me. If could confirm reported KO's or uncover new fights.

Guilalah or Old Fogey has access to the LA Times....they will have to tell us.

 

You won't find many hidden fights for Jeanette prior to meeting Johnson, because Jeanettte himself said he turned pro at 25 with no experience.

I think there are some unrecorded ( Not in the Ring Record Book or Box Rec ) matches for Sam Mcvey. Matt found a few.

 

McVey went to Australia early in his ccareer and claimed fights ther, also.

 

My hunch is that he beat Childs but not Martin.

At least two newspapers reffer to him having defeated Childs, but none to my knowledge claim a win over Martin.

The fact that there was a lot of interest in matching Jeffries with Martin for the title suggests that any previous bout would undoubtedly have been referenced.

 

I have seen both reported. I pinged Appolack on this topic. I wonder if the LA Times gives reference or has Jeffries speaking on some early fights.

 

Everyone who was white was eligible to join.

The tune played continuously that day was"All c***s look alike to me".
Jeffries was introduced as the" Champion Of Champions",when Johnson had Jeffries helpless the crowd roared " don't let him be knocked out". The white audience were behind Jeffries to a man, Johnson just grinned and laughed at them he described them later as" a sea of hatred", shots had been fired at him the day before.To say," he interacted rather well with the crowd, " is not true, he basically said , " go f**k yourselves".

 

"Jeffries has bested his oponents in short order. Two rounds, three rounds, fiver rounds is the history of his fights. He put George Griffin out in 11 seconds. Frank Childs the "colourd cyclone" of Los Angeles went out in two rounds, and Childs had bested La Blanch and Billy Smith. It took the young giant the same length of time to put out Joe Cotton."

San Fansisco Chronicle

"Considerable curiosity has been aroused over Jeffries. He has the reputation for fanning Childs to sleep in two rounds, in Los Angeles. Childs is remembered here as a verry shift bruiser. Now if a novice like Jeffries has acomplished this feat then there certainly must be some cleverness in him."

San Francisco Bulletin

It is known that both Jeffries and Childs were active in the Los Angeles area around the time of these newspaper accounts, so it is certainly possible that this fight did indeed happen.

 

Great thread guys.

 

If these wins can be confirmed, they would be very impressive victories for Jeffries at the start of his career.

 

Okay, gents, here is the complete excerpt from In the Ring With James J. Jeffries:

According to Jeffries, the two years of hard work (boxing training and boilermaking) following the Griffin bout had helped him. He had grown tired of boxing for fun (exhibition/gym sparring bouts) and decided to see if he could make money with it. He stood 6′1 ½″ and weighed 228 pounds, with a 33-inch waist.

Billy Gallagher was preparing to fight Danny Needham, and wanted Jeff to go to San Francisco to train with him, which he did. This makes sense, because Jeffries turned 21 and became a legal adult on April 15, 1896.

In May 1896, Jeff was in the San Francisco area training with the welterweight-sized Gallagher. Jeff claimed to have sparred with him for five weeks, preparing Billy for his early June bout with Needham. “He would swing on me as hard as he could and never budge me and he seemed surprised and would say: ‘Big Fellow, you take an awful wallop.’ I was learning.”

During May, the local San Francisco Chronicle listed Jeffries as 6′1″ and 195 pounds, but he was likely much bigger. During most of his career, Jeff’s weight tended to be underestimated. Because there was no official weigh-in for heavyweight bouts, reported weights were rarely objectively confirmed.

The Chronicle discussed Jeff’s ability and career to that point. “Jeffries has fought not a few men, and has won every battle he has had.” It described him as splendidly proportioned, having a frame like a “youthful Hercules, and quick-footed as a cat.”

Such force of propulsion, such speed, such controlled violence of force is fascinating. Jeffries has bested his opponents in short order. Two rounds, three rounds, five rounds is the history of his fights. He put George Griffin out in eleven seconds. Frank Childs, the “colored cyclone” of Los Angeles went out in two rounds, and Childs had bested La Blanche and “Billy” Smith. It took the young giant the same length of time to put out Joe Cotton. Jeffries is a clever and scientific boxer. His training in this line began early in life…. When he was about 14 years old Jeffries was put under instruction in the Los Angeles Athletic Club…. Jeffries’ first professional engagements were under Gallagher’s management. He made a tour of Southern California, Arizona and New Mexico, meeting all comers.

This report’s accuracy is questionable. No subsequent printing of Jeffries’ record ever mentions any of these bouts. This same newspaper, reporting Jeff’s record as of 1898, lists an 1893 KO15 against Hank Griffin in Los Angeles, but lists no other fight until Jeff’s 1895 bout with Hank Lorraine.

Jeffries did not mention any of these bouts in his autobiographies. In fact, his autobiographies contradict the claims, at least in regard to the out-of-state bouts. Jeff said that he refused to go on the road with Gallagher for two years, and did not have any professional fights until mid-1896, first fighting Dan Long. The wily Gallagher might have been generating false press releases in order to build up interest in Jeffries.

It is possible that Jeff did box Childs, who often fought in the Los Angeles area, as well as Cotton, who was later listed as a Los Angeles heavyweight. It is unclear as to how often or whom Jeffries boxed from 1893 to late 1895. Jeff appears to have been doing some training and boxing in the L.A. area, and could have fought these men in exhibition bouts, as he did with Hank Lorraine. This has never been confirmed. Certainly, a victory over Childs would be significant, given his prior and later successes. Childs later won the world colored heavyweight championship. However, given its significance, it would be curious for Jeffries never to mention such a bout.

The day after the Chronicle report hyping Jeffries, the San Francisco Examiner reported that it was said that Jeffries was an “embryo world’s champion who combines the strength of Sandow and the punching ability of Bob Fitzsimmons, with the agility of Jim Corbett.” Again, it was probably relying on Gallagher as its source.