Sullivan fight of the week Sullivan Burke

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Mar 19, 2018.


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  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It doesn't really matter if he did, it is still a secondary source.

    Why would you care what he thought, when there are hundreds of quotes from people who saw Sullivan from ringside?
    I think that you are reading what you want to into what Sullivan has said.

    He does seem to think that Jeffries would have beaten him, but Jeffries was about 20lbs heavier, probably had a stylistic advantage, and was regarded as being the best there had ever been at the time.

    Is suggesting that Jeffries could have beaten him in 1907 a particularly damaging admission?

    He makes the point that he was a come forward offensive fighter, as opposed to a technical boxer, but an offensive fighter is not necessarily a crude one.

    I have seen a few contemporary accounts that describe Sullivan as lacking science, but for every such article, you seem to find about five that praise his cleverness.
     
    janitor, Mar 23, 2018
    janitor, Mar 23, 2018
    #136
  2. Reason123

    Reason123 Not here for the science fiction. Full Member

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    Pollack said that Sullivan could just be showing modesty in that quote about Jeffries beating him.
     
    Reason123, Mar 23, 2018
    Reason123, Mar 23, 2018
    #137
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    That is a possibility, many champs have been gracious to other champions.
     
    mcvey, Mar 23, 2018
    mcvey, Mar 23, 2018
    #138
    Reason123 likes this.
  4. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Dont forget that Sullivan also actively campained in the press for a match against Jeffries! In fact, i am pretty sure that the reason for the McCormick fight was that sullivan was trying to get in shape for the Jeffries fight. In fact he even challenged Jeffries to an LPR fight since he himself had never lost at LPR.

    REally, you cant believe much what is written in the press. I find it hard to imagine any all time great not backing themself against any other fighter that ever lived.
     
    Boilermaker, Mar 24, 2018
    Boilermaker, Mar 24, 2018
    #139
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    No, I'm suggesting Sullivan style wasn't the way to go by 1900. He says so, so that debate is over. Whether he could become a better boxer is debatable. The trips and throws of LPR could have been a foundation of his game.

    I do not doubt Sullivan was something in his time. The contemporaries of his time were likely impressed as he was a standout. That doesn't; mean the same people who saw champions after he was not more impressed. What I point out, that you seem to have trouble accepting is this:

    He fought in a rush and trade time for boxing, usually vs. much smaller men, many of who he failed to stop in the mid-1880's to 1890's. Judging by the lack of Ko's by his opponents, he had little to fear about being stopped.
     
    Mendoza, Mar 24, 2018
    Mendoza, Mar 24, 2018
    #140
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    He also wanted to fight Fitzsimmons. Either Fitz or Jeffries would have blown Sullivan away. He was too old by then.
     
    Mendoza, Mar 24, 2018
    Mendoza, Mar 24, 2018
    #141
  7. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Doesn't Tom Sharkey kinda disprove that? Jeffries said Sharkey gave him his hardest fight, and from the accounts of the exhibition (I posted in it's own thread), it seems that as well as smaller, Sharkey was much slower and more basic that Sullivan.

    I agree that if he actually fought Jeffries he wouldn't have had a chance, Jeffries was just made of iron, and Sullivan wouldn't have had anything like the stamina at that point. I'd give him a slightly better better chance against Fitz, because if he landed he could have done some damage, but still unlikely to win.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Mar 24, 2018
    BitPlayerVesti, Mar 24, 2018
    #142
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    There have been no shortage of fighters who employed a similar style to Sullivan, both past 1900, and past 2000 for that matter!

    One fighter who was often compared to Sullivan from a stylistic standpoint was Terry McGovern, and he seems to have done alright for himself.
    I could find plenty of examples of people who saw Sullivan fight, who continued to rate him as the greatest heavyweight of all time, into the 1920s and 1930s.
    You still hold on to this naive notion that you can work out who was stopping who in that period, simply by looking at Boxrec!

    Where exactly do you imagine that Boxrec comes from, and how do you imagine it was compiled?

    Do you think that the Archangel blew a golden trumpet, and presented us with full career records, of every professional fighter who has ever fought?
     
    janitor, Mar 24, 2018
    janitor, Mar 24, 2018
    #143
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