Sullivan vs. Carnera

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Melankomas, Apr 29, 2024.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Sullivan was known as a terrifically fast starter with a bomb of a right hand.Carnera was very susceptible to that punch.Tunney noted that and added," when he is hit he falls apart".

    Against that;
    Mitchell 150lbs
    Greenfield 170lbs
    Burke 170lbs
    McCaffrey168lbs
    Goss 164lbs
    Donovan164lbs

    Were all under 5'9"
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2024
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  2. Shay Sonya

    Shay Sonya The REAL Wonder Woman! Full Member

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    John L. Sullivan vs. Primo Carnera: I have no way of knowing with any reasonable degree of certainty, but it would not surprise me to see a fight somewhat similar to Max Baer vs. Primo Carnera, at least I suspect the final outcome would be about the same.
     
  3. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Paddy Ryan, cleverest big man? Seriously?
     
  4. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    i’ve read the second part of the quote but never the part w Choynski saying Peter Jackson would have no shot … never saw that.
     
  5. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Donovan was saying that he saw every big man INCLUDING Ryan, though surprisingly it seems like his ‘science’ was well regarded by the time he fought Sullivan. Some actually thought he was better than Sullivan before their fight
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2024
  6. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Well, if the Sullivan of '82-'83 lost to early '30's Carnera. I suspect it would be the case of the person standing higher up the slope winning a pee'ing contest. On level ground -- if Primo had come along in JLS day, or Sullivan in Primo's -- I think Sullivan is going to be pretty brutal with Primo.
     
  7. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    It is a relevant point, as Sullivan's best opponents appeared to be smaller men like Jeff, however John L.'s track record against bigger men still appears to be quite formidable, and makes his chances in this fight look solid. Many sources thought Paddy Ryan weighed around 220, and Slade was said by some to be up to 230 when Sullivan decapitated him. Sure, these aren't world class big men, but neither is Primo. Quite a few papers accounted for Slade and Ryan's scientific abilities in exhibitions, so who knows how good they really were compared to Primo.

    There is also the 'Scotchman' (probably Le Gouriff) that Donovan recounts about in his biography:

    My dressing-room was on the opposite side of the stage from Sullivan, and as I walked out, after having put on my boxing-clothes, I saw a great, raw-boned man fully six feet four in height, with a pair of shoulders large enough to block a door.

    "Is Mustur-r-r Soolivan here?" he asked in a Scotch burr you could have cut with a knife.

    "Not yet," I replied. "What do you want to see him about?" , "wWeel," he said, "I'm the mon that's to meet him the nicht. I thought I'd like to see him."

    I told him to go into my room and sit down and I would try to find Sullivan. I went across the stage to Sullivan's dressing-room and told him this fellow was the biggest and strongest looking man I'd ever seen.

    In the middle of my description John said, with a grin: "Oh, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Take those gloves and get him ready. I want to get through. "

    I went back to the other room and told the Scotchman to strip. He pulled off his shirt and displayed a magnificent pair of arms and shoulders. Then, tying his suspenders round his waist for a belt, said that he was ready. His hands were so big that I thought I would have to cut the gloves to get them on. They were like a pair of hams. I tried to find a knife, but couldn't do so. After a lot of tugging and pulling, I finally got them on and told him to follow me, which he did as if he had been a small boy. We went upstairs to the stage, and had hardly gotten to the wings when Sullivan ran up to the big fellow and, pushing him out on the stage, said, i i Get over to that corner. ' '

    The Scotchman was so big he actually had to look down at Sullivan. He weighed at least two hundred and fifty pounds and was in excellent condition. He didn't have one ounce of superfluous flesh on his body. When time was called, and they advanced to the scratch, the contrast between the two men was even more marked. Sullivan looked like a boy, compared to this fellow.

    As they put their hands up, the big fellow rushed. I really think he believed he could beat Sullivan. John L. hit his left arm a chop, in order to break down his guard, and then whipped his right to the jaw. The Scotchman fell like a log near the back scene. As I have said, he was remarkably strong, and he showed his stamina and pluck by struggling to his feet before he was counted out. He stood facing the
    drop scene, with his hands resting on it for support, his head drooping forward. John L. walked over and turned him around, for he would never hit a man whose back was turned. Catching him by the arm he walked the other back to the middle of the stage. The big fellow; squared off to fight again.

    Sullivan again swung his right to the jaw, although not with as much force as before, and the Scotchman fell forward in a heap — insensible.

    John, as usual, pulled off his gloves and tried to pick him up. He couldn't make it, however, and four or five of us had to help him. There were a great many people in Hot Springs who thought Sullivan would have his hands full beating this fellow, and the quick way he disposed of him made a great impression.

    The Scotchman was a very powerful man, but was too slow ever to have made a fighter."


    Sullivan's confidence once hearing about his opponent's size couldn't help but suggest that he was not only used to fighting big men, but actually found it exciting.
     
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