Sumbu Kalambay vs James Toney at 160

Kalambay by decision bad style match up for Toney he would have to be the aggressor against the slick tricky elusive Kalambay and I see Toney struggling alot with Kalambay's style.

 

Toney by SD. At 160, Toney had a habit of pulling out close fights. This one would be no different.

 

Agree with the unaminous vote, Kalambay decision.

 

Bump.
I’m not surprised by the consensus here, but I suspect it’s based on several mediocre performances by Toney and many of them were against boxer types, I think Toney may have struggled with light footed guys to an extent, but I think it was brought out more due to his lack of discipline which inevitably meant he’d have mediocre performances, with many of them being against Kalambay types, so people think ‘If Reggie Johnson can nearly beat him with movement, Kalambay can’, but it wasn’t only down to the boxing and movement, but also Toney’s inconsistency, and we didn’t see a lot of the best of Toney.

But if we’re taking the very best of Toney, I don’t see him losing to Kalambay, Toney is a level or so higher, I think he can apply educated pressure and force the errors from Kalambay and counter to win by either late KO or on points, Kalambay would still trouble him.

If we take them in a real life scenario, I think Kalambay would win most times due to Toney’s inconsistency (and Kalambay was the opposite, he was one of the most consistent guys there was), coupled with his issues against boxers like Kalambay, but the very best of Toney beats him.

 

Why would you say Toney is a level higher ?

Kalambay schooled a prime McCallum where as Toney went nigh on even with a 35 year old McCallum over 2 fights there's absolutely no basis that Toney is a level higher than Kalambay at Middleweight.

 

Absolutely correct. Kalambay was right there with McCallum (best for best 160 probably above) and Toney at middleweight and matches up very well vs Toney stylistically. Best for best he'd win more than his share and when Toney wasn't at his best virtually every fight.

 

And Nunn supined Kalambay in 70 seconds and Toney broke Nunn down and cleaned him out, common opponents isn’t how you judge fighters, you judge them based on the eye test in terms of their quality and how the styles would match up, Toney looks more refined in terms of his technique and combinations and is more skilled in terms of offence and more vareity in offence, if you could get the fight into mid or close range against Kalambay, you could make it very difficult for him as he isn’t the best at shortening up his punches and I suspect Toney with the right gameplan and at his best would get the job done on the front foot using the jab and head movement to try to bait Kalambay and force it into mid-close range on enough occasions to get off some clean work and I don’t see Kalambay landing too much clean work on the outside besides jabs, as Toney was great at taking away the right hand and combinations with that Philly shell.

I think Toney is a slight level higher overall, but the styles mean that it would be very competitive, but Toney’s quality would see him through.

Ftr I also think McCallum was a level above Kalambay even though he lost to him, which was also due to styles, but McCallum used his quality to win regardless in the rematch.

 

Nunn vs Kalambay was a freak KO Kalambay was never stopped in over 60 fights if Nunn vs Kalambay fought 100 more times the same result would probably never happen again.

Toney is not at a higher than Kalambay at Middleweight and I don't know why you keep saying it. Toney was very hit and miss at Middleweight with many close decisions vs McCallum x2, Johnson, Williams, not to mention the total gift vs Tiberi.

Yes you base fighters in regards to eye test and how they match up and well regarding the eye test Kalambay is definitely on the same level as Toney in regards to their peak performances at Middleweight.

Go watch Kalambay school McCallum 9-3 or comprehensively outpoint Graham in their 1st fight or beating Barkley comfortably. Then show me a performance Toney had at Middleweight that makes him a significantly higher level than Kalambay.

And in regards to how they match up ? Kalambay was a slippery mobile counter puncher which is poison style for a fighter like Toney who doesn't have the fastest feet and likes to sit back and counter punch.

Prime for prime at Middleweight Kalambay should be favoured in this match up.

 

Talking about the Nunn KO (not trying to support Devon's would be point, since I don't agree with him), I do think that Michael would've been able to pull it off again had they fought multiple times, though it wouldn't be under the same circumstances. If you watch Kalambay's title defenses, it's clear that he can take a damn good punch, but he also can be wobbled when hit well. In his title defense against Robbie Sims, he got rocked hard multiple times, but was able to keep himself composed. It's not impossible, but I wouldn't bet on Toney doing it in 100 fights. Other great, fast, and strong southpaw middleweights would've been able to KO Kalambay, I feel.

 

Or maybe it wasn’t a freak KO and Kalambay’s long range boxing and the techniques that go with that meant that he was in punching range to be hit against the tall Nunn when he otherwise wouldn’t have been against others?
Anyway, if it was freak KO, that just proves my point that common opponents isn’t good way to compare fighters.
You mentioning that Toney is hit and miss at 160lbs actually also proves what I said earlier which is that I’d favour Kalambay most of the time in a real life scenario with consistency included, when I said I’d favour Toney, that’s assuming both are at their very best and focused, which Toney wasn’t often, but when he was, he was an ATG.

 

Kalambay SD.

 

Close fight, Kalambay was a very good middleweight (ask McCallum, Collins and Barkley) and his style was not the best for Toney, who was certainly a great champion but sometimes had a bad day (against Tiberi he had clearly lost, that was a robbery). Toney starts the match better (Kalambay did not start strong right away) but the Italian fighter after 4th round takes the right distance to James and round after round manages to land the cleaner shots. Kalambay by MD

 

At the time that they were reasonable opponents for each other (1990-92) it would probably be a 50-50 type of matchup. Kalambay was a bad stylistic matchup for Toney, but his stamina was slipping badly at this time and he was getting dropped frequently by lesser boxers who didn't hit as hard as Toney. '90s Kalambay didn't have the workrate or the movement (at least not consistently over twelve rounds) of the '80s version.

If it's prime (1987-89) Kalambay vs. prime middleweight Toney (1991-92), then Toney probably needs a knockout to win.