Super H/W div.

There's alot of threads about it, but I still think it's a terrible idea. At some point your size simply is not and advantage.

 

name CW division HW and HW division to SHW!

 

and make CW limit from 180-220!

 

There are only a few fighters around that would meet the guidelines.

People rag on the HW division as it is now. No need to add insult to injury.

 

perhaps make 168 to a 170, the lhw upto 180, but a division with a 40 pounds difference is perhaps a bit too much.. increase cw with 10 or, at most 15..

how about a super light heavyweight division, going from 180-190 and the cw from 190-215.. then the difference would seem more "natural"..

 

exactly..moving cw up to 200 was a good start...maybe they bump to 215 in the future...they will never add shw...hw is too popular

 

How so? You are breaking the division into two which means that there will be even less competition.

Name the Super H/W division. You'll have at max 20 fighters. Not much competition.

They would be more recycled than the current HW division.

As much as I love Vitali he needs to retire after the Haye fight so Wlad can go and become Undisputed.

This will help the division unequivocally.

 

valuev is a good example of how size isnt really an advantage past a certain point.

 

I don't think the heavyweight division is bad now. IMO if time travel was possible you could put one of the lesser talents of today in many different time periods and he would destroy the oldtimers, the main exception being the early 70s. I don't think the superheavyweight division is a great idea precisely because Holyfield supposedly boxed circles around the biggest belt-holder ever, supposedly a skilled boxer can outmanuever a leviathan and out box him. I remember when Chagaev snatched the belt away from Gigantor, and like I guessed, Chagaev did it with his JAB. There's more to landing a jab than simple arm length, timing and range have something to do with it. The problem smaller men face, if you can call a 6ft-2in 215lb man "small", is when the "smaller man" fights a large man who has skills and just as much athletic ability as the smaller man. That problem becomes even bigger when Goliath is actually a much better natural athlete and strategically superior to David. People used to say Mike Tyson would "be exposed" as soon as he met a good big man with a great jab, well that turned out to be true in a sense, but Tyson also tore apart several less talented big men. We don't need a giant weight class, we just need a giant killer or two. Problem is the current titans are more than likely going to outclass their respective opponents. Maybe David Haye can be the next "David" in the David vs Goliath match-up. It's an interesting prospective fight and the only match-up that could reach super fight status in the heavyweight division.

 

Exactly!

Don't make the same mistake as last time where the name "heavyweight" was kept but the weights changed.

Because until this very day fans think that Marciano or Jack Dempsey had anything to do with heavyweight.

By renaming the current heavyweight division to Superheavyweight finally cruisers like Marciano and Joe Louis would be eradicated from heavyweight lists...

Just to underline my point:
How many heavyweight fights (= both fighters 200+ lbs) did Rocky Marciano win?

Rocky Marciano: 0 heavyweight wins
Lennox Lewis: 39
Muhammad Ali: 28
Mike Tyson: 45
Joe Louis: 12
Joe Frazier: 13
Evander Holyfield: 24
James Toney: 5
Archie Moore: 3
Ezzard Charles: 3
Jack Dempsey: 4
Sam Langford: 2
Wladimir Klitschko: 50

As you see, Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier, Moore etc DON'T BELONG ON ANY real heavyweight list. They belong on cruiser lists.

I suggest that this past-time heavyweight should now be called "cruiserweight formerly known as heavyweight".

How the times changed you can see even better when you keep only opponents who were a) better (= win-loss-ratio >= 75%) and b) were natural heavies (= never boxed at 180+ or below)

Rocky Marciano: 0 heavyweight wins against better natural heavies
Lennox Lewis: 16 heavyweight wins against better natural heavies (KO 11)
Muhammad Ali: 18 (KO 7)
Mike Tyson: 17 (KO 14)
Joe Louis: 4 (KO 3)
Joe Frazier: 5 (KO 2)
Evander Holyfield: 17 (KO 7)
James Toney: 1 (KO 7)
Archie Moore: 3 (KO 3)
Ezzard Charles: 1 (KO 1)
Jack Dempsey: 3 (KO 3)
Sam Langford: 1 (KO 0)
Wladimir Klitschko: 21 (KO 18 )
Vitali Klitschko: 12 (KO 11)
Bowe: 11 (KO 6)
Foreman: 16 (KO 12)
Eric Esch (just for your information): 4 wins (3 KO) 2 losses 1 draw.

As you can see Lennox, the Klitschkos, Holyfield, Foreman and Ali play in a completely different league than Moore, Dempsey or Louis.

It's a corruption of lists when you put Langford or Louis or Frazier on the same list like Klitschko or Lennox. When guys like Frazier mess around with real heavyweights they get punished like Foreman punished him. Frazier had only a chance when fighting against a natural cruiser like Ali.

As you can see ANY of the modern heavies has a better record in real heavyweight tournaments than several of the older heavies combined.

Escpecially Wladimir Klitschko (in the middle of his career) has more such heavyweight KO wins on his record than Mike Tyson, Joe Louis and Marciano COMBINED.

 

Ahem, with a record of 50 wins to 1 loss (by majority decision by the way), Valuev is a pretty good example that size _IS_ an advantage.