Superfight 1 .. Ali's Bravest Fight

robert80 · Mar 27, 2014

He was robbed of 39 months of his prime by the us goverment right. This has been flogged to death folks, let it go!!

redrooster · Mar 27, 2014

he grant said: ↑

With all that has been said time and again about this legendary fight, what may be most over looked is what an exceptional performance Muhammad Ali but on to be highly competitive at all ... coming off his three and one half year layout he had two fights in six weeks and then was rushed into a fight with an absolutely physical prime and active Joe Frazier. Of his prior two fights, the Quarry bout ended very early due to a cut while the Bonavena clearly showed how much he had lost due to the exile. Ali looked bad in that fight. His legs were weak, his timing and defense poor. He was hit more in that figt than in his own prior career combined . Only the dramatic last round KO even made the Frazier fight possible. Without it too many would have said he looked like crap and was not ready.

I rewatched the entire fight yesterday and was enormously impressed with the performance Ali put on .. he clearly got tired and had to show tremendous courage to hang in there and fight the fight he did. Frazier won the fight but Ali proved to be as tough and courageous as any fighter I've ever seen.
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Ali, who had a legitimate excuse for not fighting, was anxious for a fight with the champion and set his tuneup bouts very close together against top opponents (not faded ones or false gatekeepers)

consider; from October 1970 to March 1971, a mere six months, Ali sure didnt keep anyone waiting for long. In fact, his trainer Dundee tried to convince MA to have more tuneups but Ali wasnt having none of it

1972 was a banner year for muhammad. we need more fightes like him

mcvey · Mar 27, 2014

robert80 said: ↑

He was robbed of 39 months of his prime by the us goverment right. This has been flogged to death folks, let it go!!
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Ali's prime was mentioned ,the fact that we never saw it is incontrovertible.

Just because its mentioned often, it doesn't follow that its not true.

Frazier's health problems ,[ being past it at 29,] get flogged more than the crew of HMS Bounty , no one complains about that. It's called balance.

he grant · Mar 27, 2014

mcvey said: ↑

I think Louis was in his prime for the two B Baer, Nova, and first Conn fights, he was 27/28 with 50 bouts and 16 defences under his belt.
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Maybe you're right on Louis as he was 28 .. if not he was much closer than Ali or Dempsey for sure .. I thought Louis was born in 1916 .. my mistake there ..

he grant · Mar 27, 2014

Claus Holmen said: ↑

You can´t take anything away from Frazier. He was at his absolutely best on march 8 and I think he would´ve been the same or better the whole 1971.
Ali really lacked athletical motivation having an idea of being unbeatable. On a bad day he had KOéd Bonavena. Frazier having struggled against the Argentinian - Ali believed he had proved his point and did´nt need a long preparation for the fight.
But Frazier was highly motivated. He was a proud man being verbally punished by a man he had loved like a brother. He was ready to die in the ring. Ali never expected Frazier to fight with such a determination and he had no legs to avoid Frazier´s attacks.
I became a Frazier-fan on march 8, 1971. On that night in Madison Sq. Garden - he would´ve defeated any of the world champions before and after - Louis, Dempsey, Foreman, Liston, Marciano, Patterson, Tunney, Lewis or Klitschko.
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Frazier was at his best .. I do not think Ali was under rating anything nor do I believe he came away from the Bonavena fight with false illusions ... prior to the KO it was his absolutely worst performance at least post Liston and he new it .. he put a nice spin by saying the work would help but his body was exhausted and after two fights in three months after the exile he would have been much better served taking six months to recoup than fight again in ten weeks ... everyone knew it .. Ferdie Pacheco wrote a lot about it but it was, as always, all about the money .. so much was at stake and the thought of anything coming up and stoping the fight such a fear that they all went for it .. Frazier was exceptional that night but Ali clearly lacked the legs and stamina he had at his best and it showed after the first four or five rounds where he was exceptional .. as far as Frazier beating any fighter that night, that's a while other conversation ...

Mendoza · Mar 27, 2014

he grant said: ↑

With all that has been said time and again about this legendary fight, what may be most over looked is what an exceptional performance Muhammad Ali but on to be highly competitive at all ... coming off his three and one half year layout he had two fights in six weeks and then was rushed into a fight with an absolutely physical prime and active Joe Frazier. Of his prior two fights, the Quarry bout ended very early due to a cut while the Bonavena clearly showed how much he had lost due to the exile. Ali looked bad in that fight. His legs were weak, his timing and defense poor. He was hit more in that figt than in his own prior career combined . Only the dramatic last round KO even made the Frazier fight possible. Without it too many would have said he looked like crap and was not ready.

I rewatched the entire fight yesterday and was enormously impressed with the performance Ali put on .. he clearly got tired and had to show tremendous courage to hang in there and fight the fight he did. Frazier won the fight but Ali proved to be as tough and courageous as any fighter I've ever seen.
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Ali also showed courage vs Norton ( Broken jaw ), and Shavers when he was hurt a few times. A man who refuses to quit is tough to beat. Ali just happened to have some world class skills in addition to mental toughness.

mcvey · Mar 27, 2014

he grant said: ↑

Frazier was at his best .. I do not think Ali was under rating anything nor do I believe he came away from the Bonavena fight with false illusions ... prior to the KO it was his absolutely worst performance at least post Liston and he new it .. he put a nice spin by saying the work would help but his body was exhausted and after two fights in three months after the exile he would have been much better served taking six months to recoup than fight again in ten weeks ... everyone knew it .. Ferdie Pacheco wrote a lot about it but it was, as always, all about the money .. so much was at stake and the thought of anything coming up and stoping the fight such a fear that they all went for it .. Frazier was exceptional that night but Ali clearly lacked the legs and stamina he had at his best and it showed after the first four or five rounds where he was exceptional .. as far as Frazier beating any fighter that night, that's a while other conversation ...
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Good analysis!:good

Stevie G · Mar 27, 2014

he grant said: ↑

Frazier was at his best .. I do not think Ali was under rating anything nor do I believe he came away from the Bonavena fight with false illusions ... prior to the KO it was his absolutely worst performance at least post Liston and he new it .. he put a nice spin by saying the work would help but his body was exhausted and after two fights in three months after the exile he would have been much better served taking six months to recoup than fight again in ten weeks ... everyone knew it .. Ferdie Pacheco wrote a lot about it but it was, as always, all about the money .. so much was at stake and the thought of anything coming up and stoping the fight such a fear that they all went for it .. Frazier was exceptional that night but Ali clearly lacked the legs and stamina he had at his best and it showed after the first four or five rounds where he was exceptional .. as far as Frazier beating any fighter that night, that's a while other conversation ...
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There was also the matter of Ali having that jail sentence hanging over him. It was vital to both men and all others concerned to get the FOTC on as soon as they could. Mercifully,the pending sentence got lifted in the June of that year.

Wass1985 · Mar 27, 2014

Question is, was Ali better in the second fight or was Frazier worse?? Would the first fight have been more like the second if Ali had come better prepared after the long exile??

mcvey · Mar 27, 2014

Wass1985 said: ↑

Question is, was Ali better in the second fight or was Frazier worse?? Would the first fight have been more like the second if Ali had come better prepared after the long exile??
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I think it wasa combination of both FOTC took alot out of both men , but more away from Joe imo.

Ali had shed the ring rust of their first encounter and was confident in his stamina. Ali knew he had given too many rounds away in the first fight , but if he had attempted an all out onslaught he might have gassed out and been stopped late ,as it was he was in desperate trouble in the 11 th rd.

robert80 · Mar 28, 2014

Look, was that ali the same ali, the same one that last fought in 1967? ADJUST YOUR EYES SON!

Stevie G · Mar 28, 2014

mcvey said: ↑

I think it wasa combination of both FOTC took alot out of both men , but more away from Joe imo.

Ali had shed the ring rust of their first encounter and was confident in his stamina. Ali knew he had given too many rounds away in the first fight , but if he had attempted an all out onslaught he might have gassed out and been stopped late ,as it was he was in desperate trouble in the 11 th rd.
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Good post. A great hypothetical match would be Frazier from fight I against Ali of the 1974 second bout.

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