Superheavys most important trait

Two things, I wouldn´t call Povetkin a superheavyweight and I think this is one reason they are labeled "boring". Fighting behind a jab, keeping the opponents at a distance, giving them not much chances.

 

I doubt Ray Austin and Lance Whitaker could beat him.
He'd outpoint Valuev too I think.

 

I agree, though I think that has more to do with the greatness of Lennox Lewis rather than the greatness of superheavyweights. Aside from Lewis, Wlad and Vitali, the careers of superheavyweights haven't been impressive YET. Bowe could have had a great career, but he wasted all his talent; one big (pun intended) problem with superheavyweights seems to be that only two (Wlad and Vitali) have successfully kept their weight down consistently.

 

Did Austin, Whitaker or Valuev ever beat a fighter even half the class of Charles? So why would you think he could beat a fighter as skilled and gifted as him? Because they got beat by a Chagaev or Klitschko? Yeah, that´s why they would be able to beat a guy tho outskills and outthinks all of them by a big margin.

 

ability to clinch

 

Being a huge 261 lbs super heavy didn't save Dave Ashley from a bad beating and a tko loss to Ezzard Charles in 1959.

I wouldn't call big Dave the most skilled superheavy but just being big and tough ain't enough.

Skill like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so there is a balance to be struck between how much skill offsets how much weight. We will all likely disagree about that but I think it is fun to talk about and try to get some new insights from different perspectives.

I've already seen a couple of new things to ponder from this thread!

 

This is true, because of ratios, and because muscle mass on a 100lb is basically none existant, where as the the 180lber has say 80lbs of muscle on him (guessing) and the 260lber has say 160lbs of muscle (guessing)

However the difference between a good 180lber and a good 260lber is still comparable to the difference between a 180lber and a 140lber, ie MASSIVE

 

In answer to the question:

Height & Reach: Obvious Reasons

Power: All things being equal the heavier more muscular stronger man can generate more power

Chin: Muscle mass around the neck, in the legs and in the lower back all help you absorb shots. The stronger and more muscle you have in these areas the better your ability to take a punch. The more muscular Holyfield got, the thicker his neck got and his punch endurance went right up

Strength in the clinches: pushing your man about, laying on him and tiring him out

Weight behind shots: Even shots without much on them are very heavy and can push you back usually

All of these reasons also mean the smaller fighter has to hit and run, stay away from engaging, and generally this all takes up more energy, while his opponent can walk him down, cut off the ring and not need to move as much

 

Interesting opinion, what do you believe this minimum reach required to compete with a superheavy is and what are your minimum values for height or weight?

Sonny Liston would obviously meet your reach requirement with his 84" reach, but does his 6′ 0½″ height or 212lb prime weight qualify for one of the other 2?
How about Joe Frazier, at 5′ 11½″with 73" reach and 206lb prime weight, does he fail on all of your requirements? And finally, if Liston and/or Frazier don't manage to meet your minimum values for reach and height or weight, does that mean that you favour all top superheavys over them, like the Klits??

 

Agreed on all points.

 

Super heavies have pretty much been the top guy in the divison since Bowe. I think Lewis kept his weight down for most of his career. even 250 is not a bad weight for a 6'5" guy in his late 30's.

 

Lewis was usually in good shape, but he had nothing like the consitency of either Wlad or Vitali.

The fact that the top guy has been a superheavyweight since 1992 has had more to do with a specific few superheavyweights. Bowe was an ephemeral boxer who shined brightly for about one fight and became fairly irrelevant to the rest of the division after that, so we can ignore him. Lewis was on top from about 1999 to 2003, followed by Vitali and Wlad.

I think the key thing is that Lewis, Vitali and Wlad are not representative of superheavyweights in general. There has been no other superheavyweight who can even hold a candle to those three since 1999. That tells me that, once the Klitschkos are off the scene, there is no reason to think that the next great heavyweight HAS to be a superheavyweight.

Notably, there has yet to be a great American superheavyweight since Bowe, probably for the same reason that Bowe never really made it to ATG status: American heavyweights don't seem to have the discipline to be at a level of exceptional conditioning. Without that conditioning, the disadvantages of size become a factor. As a result, Lewis, Vitali and Wlad have been the exception, not the rule. It's also worth noting that there is no clear young superheavyweight coming up to take the palce of the Klitschko brothers, though of course there might be one out there.

 

Here's an example of what I'm talking about: compare the conditioning of Robert Helenius and Tyson Fury with that of Wlad and Vitali. Vitali is in his late 30s and he's far, FAR more fit than either Helenius or Fury. If you're 6"4 or above, the amount of training required to be at boxer-level fitness is apparently immense and only three boxers in the modern era have been able to do it. Notably, they've been the three best heavyweights since 1999.

 

I did not say anything about a SHW beating them. I Would not put either Frazier or Foreman as a SHW but this does not mean i discredit them when fighting a SHW. I think its has to be changed for evry fighter. Its hard to set out a weight limit or hight limit because this can not always be the case. Take David Tua in the Wheeler fight coming in at 250, 5ft10" and 70" reach , does the 250 make him a SHW i am not sure , i imagin to some yes to other no.

I think generaly though you see some one and just know. Imagin we dont look at the most famous guys SNV, Lewis, either Klit or Bowe they are undeniably SHW. Say Rahman, 2002 Holyfield , he came in at 224 maybe this means his 82" reach and being 6ft2/3" still means his isnt SHW , he most certainly is in the Boldridge fight at 264.

What i am saying is i think you can not make a general tick this box to become a SHW . It isnt a real devision so weight limits are void and we can not base in on hight or reach because we may get some one like Butterbean who is definatly SHW weighing in at over 400lb but under 6foot.

 

I don't think being tall means it is hard to be in shape. The NBA is full of tall guys, and almost none of them are fat.

If we are honest, Ali and Frazier were fat in their mid 30's too.

There is being in shape, and being ideal boxing shape, ready to go 12 rounds. The best way to get in shape is to stay close to your ideal fighting weight between fights, then spar 100 rounds in the camp leading up to a fight.

Helinus has top ten ability but he's not Klitschko. I do not think Fury will make it past the Eruo championship level.