Suppose Muhammad Ali had never been born, Sonny Liston's opponents in title defenses.

They actually had a great 2 part series about Suppose Muhammad Ali Had Never Been Born in Big Book of Boxing in the 70s. It is awesome.

 

With Liston never getting disrupted by Ali he probably has a much longer championship reign that probably cements him as an even greater heavyweight in history.
Most of the title fights that occur between the 1964-1966 period would remain the same I think (rather than Ali and Terrell fighting Patterson, Machen, Chuvalo, Williams, and Jones, Liston fights them).
Also, the WBA tournament probably does not occur.

This is how I have Liston faring in bouts with these big 60s heavies in the years I picked:
1964
Zora Folley II-Folley gives the same brave effort he did 4 years earlier, but gets knocked out again. Liston is a little older and Folley probably fights smarter. Maybe it takes 5-7 rounds for Liston to pull it off this times.
1965
Ernie Terrell-I think this would be the beginning of Liston slipping. Terrell was at his peak. This would be a great battle of jabs. Liston wins by close decision.
Eddie Machen II-At their ages probably not a very good fight. Machen once again lasts the distance, being too elusive for Liston, but doesn't do enough to grab the decision.
Floyd Patterson III-If Patterson had a back injury and fought Liston! Whew!!! Patterson would wind up killed. This times it doesn't take 2 minutes. 30 seconds.
1966
George Chuvalo-Great, tough battle. Close fight early on, but Liston slices Chuvalo up and 1) either stops him, or 2? pounds out the decision in the latter half of the fight.
Doug Jones-Liston disposes of Jones in 2 or 3 rounds. Terrific fight.
Cleveland Williams III-Liston would murder a post-shooting Williams. This time it is not competitive. Liston in 1.
Karl Mildenberger-Liston in 1.
1967
Thad Spencer-Liston could likely take Spencer out right away, but maybe Liston has slipped too far by this point and loses the decision. IDK.
Leotis Martin-Liston by stoppage in middle rounds.
1968
Joe Frazier-End of Liston. This would be a helluva fight though. Prime for prime I think Liston would tear Joe up, but at this point Joe was an unstoppable force that a subpar Liston would be no match for. Frazier wins the decision.
Jerry Quarry-Another good scrap. Can't decide between Liston middle-round stoppage or Quarry close decision.
Jimmy Ellis-Ellis decision.
Buster Mathis-Liston knockout.
Oscar Bonavena-Liston decision. Good fight.

I just felt like doing them anyway, but maybe third matches with Patterson and Williams would be pretty improbable.

The 1967/ 1968 matchups could vary a lot since there was no tournament it would be difficult to figure out how the rankings would be.

 

Sounds awesome.

 

I suspect that Liston would have found his James Douglas figure sooner rather than later.

Not sure who it would be, but what he was doing only ends one way.

 

Thank you Rich. This means a lot.

The KD's, ha ha. Liston was so seldom floored that I could not see any of those fighters flooring him. However, nearly all those fighters would suffer knockdowns: Folley, Patterson, Jones, Williams, Mildenberger, Spencer, Martin, Quarry, Mathis, and Bonavena all hit the deck at the fists of Liston. Not all of them stay down, but all of them go down.

 

Let's see...

In February 1964 Liston defends against his number 1 contender, Doug Jones. Jones puts up a surprisingly strong showing and the world is shocked when Sonny quits on his stool at the end of round 6, citing a shoulder injury. Rumors abound that the fix was in.

A rematch is signed for in November. This violates a new WBA rule against immediate rematches, so they strip Jones of their title and try to set up a 4-man tournament to determine their new champion. This doesn't happen and Ernie Terrell decisions Eddie Machen for their vacant belt.

Meanwhile, the Jones-Liston rematch is postponed due to a Jones injury and rescheduled for May. In an incredible shocker, Jones KO's Liston in the very first round, but the questions come hard and fast. Fans are still debating that fight nearly 60 years in the future.

A Jones-Terrell unification bout is set up for June of 1966. Terrell wins recognition as undisputed champ by winning a boring 15-round decision over Jones.

Terrell defends against Thad Spencer in August 1967. Spencer wins the title by unanimous decision in a mild upset. Spencer then loses his title by last-second knockout to Jerry Quarry in February 1968. Quarry then loses the title to Jimmy Ellis. Ellis loses the title to Joe Frazier in February 1970.

Fans then start a thread on a boxing forum asking how long Frazier's reign would have been had George Foreman never been born.

 

I would favor Liston over Ali's initial title challengers, I don't think anyone including Patterson would want a 3rd fight so that never happens. Cleveland Williams 3 maybe or maybe not happens, but Liston wins if so. Terrell is going to probably be an issue here, but maybe Liston gets an unpopular decision?

However on second thought, Liston had also (after listening to Rummy's interview with Steward) settled into middle age, drinking beer, and golfing instead of training hard after beating Patterson. Liston is also only going to have fought 3 rounds in the previous 3 years still. If these things hold in this timeline, Liston is going to be ripe for the taking with a hungry challenger that can survive the early rounds and give Liston a tough time in latter rounds. Maybe another fight with Williams that is closer than theur first couple gives Liston a scare brings him back down to earth.


Its an interesting scenario. I want to say Liston goes on to a long successful title reign that a guy of his ability could have, but an unfocused mid 30s heavyweight who has lost his hunger, I don't think this is a good bet.

 

Great thread. I’ll have to think on it but tip of the cap to @William Walker and @sweetsci for their contributions!

 

You too my friend, lol.