Suppose that Sugar Ray Leonard had a different team guiding him?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Richard M Murrieta, Jul 31, 2022.

  1. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Suppose that Sugar Ray Leonard had a different team guiding ? Let's say the Leonard was trained by Eddie Futch instead of Angelo Dundee.
     
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  2. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    By guided do you mean picking his matches? Bring him along as a prospect? Eddie Futch knew the business as well as anybody. I don't think he could do any better than Angelo did. Dundee was outstanding bring Leonard along. Choosing the right kind of opponents to get him to be a seasoned pro.
    As far as the fighting/training aspect. Leonard was a Supreme talent, he was gonna be successful with either guy.
     
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  3. steve21

    steve21 Active Member Full Member

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    As a boxer, I don’t think there was much that really could be improved or changed; while nobody’s perfect, he was still a pretty complete package and Dundee knew how to push the buttons as well as anyone. Futch had his own way, different than Angelo, but I think he would have had similar success - so, different means but same outcome
     
  4. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Active Member Full Member

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    whatever could be improved upon, is not discernible to the human eye. that's how good he was.

    But in managing his career, he could have gone further, his career standing much improved.

    This is where the Petronelli's could have helped him
     
  5. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ray saw pretty much everything you could expose someone to on his way up: southpaws, taller/bigger guys (Marcus Geraldo), fast guys, boxers, sluggers, short fighters, counterpunchers, strong guys, slick boxers, roughhousers … you name it.

    He wasn’t just fighting a bunch of chumps either. Floyd Mayweather was a prospect. Randy Shields, Pete Ranzany, etc., were contenders. Andy Price was the ‘uncrowned champ’ who had wins over the two reigning champions (Palomino and Cuevas, before Wilfred took the title off Carlos) … and took him out in one.

    It’s like Angelo Dundee was ordering off a menu and took one or two from each category to expose Ray to pretty much everything he might encounter to get him ready for it.
     
  6. sasto

    sasto Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I have always got the impression there was something missing in the connection between Dundee and Leonard.

    Not sure he could get any more boxing ability out of the man, but what if he could have kept him more consistent and in the game longer? Clearly a lot was left on the table achievement wise as he played the early retirement and comeback game.
     
  7. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Look at Joe Frazier, he had a really good team when he turned pro in 1965 following his Gold Medal victory at the 1964 Olympic Games in Tokyo. The team of Yank Durham and Eddie Futch brought Joe along slowly and carefully. They could have thrown Joe into the ring against champion Muhammad Ali in 1965, much like the Pete Rademacher vs Floyd Patterson title bout in 1957, but that would have been disastrous, Ali was in peak form at that time. They waited for Ali to be banned, waiting for Ali to aquire ring rust, even Durham admitted that. I think that if Sugar Ray Leonard would have had Eddie Futch, who had trained several champion dating back to the 1950's, he could have taught Leonard on how to set himself to throw heavy punches, I think that Angelo Dundee molded Leonard into how Ali fought in his earlier years plus Ray had natural ability too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2022
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  8. sasto

    sasto Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali must have cast a long shadow on that relationship. How must it have affected Dundee to see Ali decline so rapidly like he did just as Leonard's career got into full swing? Was part of him thinking about if he was sending Leonard to the same fate?

    Now that you say what Futch would have done I'm not as enthused though! Part of what makes Leonard appealing is you see his beginning, middle, and end against some decent competition. But perhaps less of the beginning would have given us more of the middle and end?
     
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  9. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Too bad Sugar Ray Leonard retired following his title defense against Bruce Finch in 1982, a lot of quality opponents awaited him, guys like Donald Curry, Marlon Starling, Milton McCrory and Aaron Pryor, that detached retina Leonard suffered in the first Hearns fight in 1981 robbed us of what could have been.
     
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  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Leonard's career could not have gone any better in this regard. The choice of opponents when he was coming up was brilliant and as a fighter he could not ave been much better. We are talking about one of the best rounded fighters in history.
     
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  11. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is ludicrous

    He was perfectly guided up to the time he retired because of the detached retina

    And then he got a fight with the Petronellis managed Hagler without a tune up and after a 3 yr layoff without even a tuneup based soley on reputation.

    Then he beat Hagler and could have quit right then with legacy fully secured.

    As it is, he won a couple of more titles.

    The draw with Hearns and the losses to Norris and Camacho dont really tarnish his legacy.

    Most remember the Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler wins and that is enough to secure his outstanding legacy
     
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  12. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Active Member Full Member

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    This is clearly propaganda, easily disputed and easy to disprove as well.

    A GOOD manager would have helped guide him away from harmful, damaging moves

    would have kept Leonard from holding a PR stunt in 1982, bringing Hagler into attendance only to tell the crowd, "sorry, no fight!"

    any DECENT manager would have told him "no, no Ray, don't do that"

    any decent manager would have told him to stay retired rather that take risks later in his career, some of which worked, and others, not so well.

    Would have told him "stay away from Norris. He's too fast for you. He could get you in trouble. He'll set you up for a right hand!! Dont take that fight with Camacho.... etc. etc."

    I dont like seeing farces like Lalonde - Leonard any more than the public does, other than those with extremely low standards (like yourself)

    instead preferring TIMELY bouts with Pryor, Curry, mid 80s rematch with Hitman and hopefully, wouldnt become too dainty by 1989 for a mega bout with Michael Nunn, all of which I'm sure WOULD be welcomed by the paying public

    Sorry brother, I'm just being real with you
     
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  13. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Stop The Steal Syndrome in boxing. Lol.
     
  14. Titan1

    Titan1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There is not too much Eddie could have done instead of Angelo, though it would have been interesting to see how he would have done with Ray in Montreal.
     
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  15. Tockah

    Tockah F-GOAT Full Member

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    Solid post dude, cannot agree more.