Supposing Ali had retired after Zaire in 1974

dont know bout foreman,but ali would be more acclaimed if that's poss.

 

Ali held onto the WBA Title for a year after regaining it from Leon Spinks. Presumably, he'd have likewise mothballed his newly reacquired championship for a year after Kinshasa. Jimmy Young beat Lyle the first time in February 1975, but it was Ron who got the second shot at Muhammad. In defeating Lyle though, Young vaulted himself into the mix. An inactive Foreman might have been further shattered by being deprived of the hope of a rematch with Ali.

How does Foreman evade Young in an attempt to regain the title? Bugner was also hot in 1975, Ali publicly stated that he expected Bugner to succeed him after retiring, and Joe had the height, reach, speed, endurance, toughness, mobility and skill necessary to outbox George over the championship distance.

Norton and Frazier had already been crushed by Foreman, but Young and Bugner posed serious obstacles for him to overcome in getting back on top. It's no kind of sure thing that George could have succeeded Ali in 1975 or 1976.

 

It would eliminate the victories over Lyle, Shavers and Frazier in Manilla, wins that add more depth to his already strong legacy.

 

He would have left on a high note

 

Probably would still be considered the Greatest, but missing a few quality wins he would have later.Probably would've been a tourney with either Young or Norton being champion.

 

Also the rubber match with Norton in Yankee Stadium, a bout today widely acknowledged by youtube viewers to have been fairly won by Ali (or lost by Norton, if one prefers).

He generated ten successful title defenses after Kinshasa, and the majority of those came following Manila.

I sometimes wonder what Ali might have accomplished had he the dietary control to maintain his weight at 215 between fights after Foreman, and managed to retain a high level of fitness. Maybe he wouldn't have taken so much punishment in Manila, or so many head shots from Shavers. He became entirely too dependent on his toughness and durability to see him through.

After the scare with Young, he got himself into fine condition for Dunn, and looked sharp. I don't think Manila took quite as much out of him as has commonly been supposed. But the Inoki farce was ruinous to his legs, then his coordination and timing never seemed right after taking those repeated flashing head shots from Shavers.

Had he maintained an optimal weight and condition, and stayed away from Inoki, Leon doesn't come close to his title, Shavers and Evangelista get taken out, and there would be little debate today over Young and Norton.

 

After the way Lyle had just been schooled by Young, and earlier, Jerry Quarry, Ron had no business competing with Muhammad the way he was. For one of the very few times in his career, Ali decided the outcome on a single punch, something he would never do again. Aside from that, this was much more of a legacy fight for Lyle.

Shavers has been widely argued for as indeed being a legacy fight for both participants. Like Lyle, Earnie came in with an unusual mentality for a slugger, prepared for the long haul. In the current thread about how Ali-Foreman II might have unfolded, it was suggested that George might have been able to pace himself to a decision win. Ali-Lyle and Ali-Shavers provide crucial evidence that Foreman would not have succeeded. Unlike Foreman in Kinshasa, Shavers had recently been extended ten rounds, by Henry Clark in their first bout, and then in sustaining a fast pace before a final burst of last minute power against Tiger Williams. (Foreman never matched what Earnie did in that one. George's tenth round stoppage of Peralta was dubious, while he later conceded every minute to Moorer before putting over the sleeper. Shavers, on the other hand, had Tiger beaten on the scorecards, yet proved he had not punched himself out.) Earnie was as well prepared for Ali as he could have been.

Foreman hammered Muhammad with some lethal body shots, but very few landed flush to the chin. While it's said there's no glory in taking a punch, the fact is that Ali did stand up to a multitude of Earnie's right hand bombs upside the head. Shavers needed just one of those to drop Ellis (for the count), Tillis (flat on his face), Mercado, Bugner and Holmes. (His hook was nothing to sneeze at either. He dropped Lyle with it, used it to floor Young, making him the only man to ever put Jimmy on the deck, and he initially stunned Norton with a hook.) Much of Ali's claim to having an all time chin can be credited to how he stood up to Shavers. The way Muhammad closed the show at the end of the championship distance after taking the punishment he did required something more than smoke and mirrors.

Muhammad's final successful defense was not against the likes of a Dunn, Evangelista, Coopman or Wepner, but a legendary slugger at the peak of competitive preparedness, and Ali still prevailed, the hard way, and finished stronger at the end.

 

Nobody asks how things would have been if Ali retired after Evangelista. In class the next day, many of us who saw Ali-Shavers thought Earnie deserved to win, yet there wasn't the sense Muhammad was about to be dethroned. We knew he was aging and slipping, of course, but thought he was still too smart for the challengers then in the picture.

Leon Spinks should have been an easy defense, but Leon fought smartly, while Ali's cleverness seemed to desert him.

Stevie, we are not in disagreement that Manila did take a lot out of him, but you're well familiar with my view that Shavers is too overlooked in his subsequent decline. He conditioned himself to dance for 15 rounds in the rematch with Leon, yet Cosell was still able to observe and describe the deterioration in his hand speed, reflexes and accuracy in New Orleans. I suspect that brain damage he sustained from Earnie may have been responsible for some of that.