Supposing Oscar Bonavena got the nod in first Frazier fight.?

Bonavena was signed to become Muhammad Ali's next challenger after Folley, in a match scheduled to take place in Tokyo, on May 24, 1967. In effect, Ringo was going to be rewarded as if he had indeed received the decision over Frazier.

Ultimately, Ringo did indeed get a shot at Ali before Frazier had an opportunity to fight Muhammad, and over the 15 round distance, at a more opportune time than the FOTC, only to run into the best left hook Ali ever delivered. He was dropped twice by Ellis in losing their WBA tournament showdown in December 1967, yet was challenging Joe in Philly one year later.

After that first match with Smoke, Ringo got the red carpet as though he had indeed taken the decision, but continued to earn his chances by remaining active and taking risks against excellent opposition. Had he lived long enough to retire, Ali may well have granted him a title shot rematch. Coming after Manila, a successful defense for Muhammad would have been no cinch.

Where history might have changed significantly is if Oscar had managed to produce a second round stoppage with a third and final knockdown in 1966. No referee was ever going to count ten on Joe, unless it was over his dead body, but the three knockdown rule was a different matter. Perceptions of Frazier as an irresistible force would have gone out the window long before Foreman even entered Mexico City, and his ability to intimidate may have been severely compromised.

 

Frazier definitly won the fight. The knockdowns made it close but apart from two rounds Frazier bossed the fight.

 

Frazier won the fight if Ringo had won there would have been an immediate rematch.

 

Regarding Bonavena being Ali's next challenger after Folley, an Ali-Patterson fight was scheduled for Detroit, April 25, 1967, three days before Ali's appointment with the draft board. That fight was cancelled and, sure enough, Ali-Bonavena was scheduled for Tokyo May 27. There was other talk of Ali-Spencer in San Francisco in July.

As to the original question, perhaps history would've changed in the short term (Buster Mathis may have fought someone else for the NY title, for example), but in the long term Joe would have rebounded much like Joe Louis did after the Schmeling loss.

 

The fight was not scored under the 10 point must system. But what if it was?

I watched the fight and scored it under the 10 point must. Frazier won 7 rounds, Bonevena won three, but Bonevenna had 3 knockdowns. Under the 10 point must system, this is a draw.

Win, lose or draw, this was perhaps the second best puncher Frazier fought ( Bonevena was not a huge puncher ), and one of his more durable opponents. Bonevena to me moderately fast and moderately skilled. Yet he exposed Frazier for having a suspect chin, and not enough power to put a durable guy away. Not the best traits to have if your a swarmer / forward moving type.

 

It's interesting that Frazier could not drop Oscar in two fights, yet, the Argentinian was on the floor against both Folley and Ellis.

 

I think Ringo was pretty impressed with that. I remember him telling Ali after the fight that he can beat Frazier because he's a better fighter. Something like that. He was being pretty gracious.

 

Bonavena would be much better remembered and highly regarded.

But I doubt Frazier's standing would suffer at all.

 

yes I remember Oscar's "you no cheecken..you no cheecken..Frazier no ween you"....

 

I agree with this take. I think Frazier would still have emerged as champion, but it might have taken some gloss off his record in retrospect.

*By the way, I score that fight for Bonavena even on rounds.

 

:rofl:rofl

 

Oscar may have gotten a little more pull, but the way Joe was going, and his focus, he wasn't going to be denied.

 

Bonavena while plodding forward was open for counters, but he handled pressure very well and knew how to defend himself and smother most of Frazier's blows.