SURVEY CLOSED

thanks

 

It is broad, and ranking pioneers always will be.

For me it's more that I can't think of more than 5 people who have done enough to overtake him.

Gans, Leonard and Duran are quite clear to go above him by any criteria.

Ortiz ruled for about 6 years fighting anyone and everyone around, I have no issues placing him above Jack as well.

Then after Jack I look at my list and think why aren't they overtaking him.

Sweet Pea, unified the division completely, beat everyone he fought as a LW, but wasn't there for long enough imo.

Ike Williams has a very similar argument to Pea actually, unified the division completely, beat everyone he fought as a LW (until Carter) but again he wasn't the king for long enough imo.

So for me, Jack starts off any debate at number 1, and I then look at others and justify if they move above him or not.

Pea and Ike were close to move above him, I wouldn't argue to vociferously against them.

 

So Packey McFarland for me, he probably spent 2 years as the uncrowned LW champ when Wolgast sat on the throne. He also did the same up at WW for my money but that's by the by.

I'd say McFarlands best 5 wins as a lightweight are Yanger, Herman, Welsh, Britt, Moran. We have an ATG LW there and some good solid names.

But Jack couldn't beat any ATG LWs as non existed, so I can't hold that against him. His top 5 wins are probably Frazier, Gilmore, Carney, Carroll and Gibbons. How do I compare those with the names on Packeys ledger, we have incomplete records, lack of official rankings, so I have to give him the benefit of the doubt on his resume, that's where McGrains pioneer argument comes into it for me. Jack was the LW pioneer, he had no great names to beat, he could only beat who's put in front of him and its hard to ascertain how deserving those names were.

Both Packey and Jack beat everyone they fought as a LW.

So the difference for me is Jack spent longer at the top of his division.

I don't buy into any argument such as Packey would have dominated that division, Packey had his own era to achieve greatness in, and achieve greatness he did. Just not as much as McAuliffe imo.

 

He's an interesting fighter. I don't rate him as high as Kid Lavigne, though for what it's worth, when they fought an exhibition, most people thought he would have beaten Lavigne in his prime.

He was certainly very good. I could get you some fight reports if you're interested, not sure how much has been posted on him

He actually said himself that retiring undefeated was a bit of a fluke. Jem Carney gave him absolute hell, and arguably deserved to beat him, Carney used some bareknuckle tactics that arguably should have got him disqualified. He got a gift against Young Griffo from what I've read, and before the Carney fight apparently Jimmy Mitchell had the better of a short contest with him, though it was ruled a draw.

As he person, he's always been pretty likable to me.

 

Actually the more I read about Jack McAuliffe the more impressed I am with Young Griffo.

 

Yes, I would welcome some reports if you were so inclined to dig and or share (Either here or in a separate thread) what you have. I am interested in learning more about him. I think it is clear historically he is a great and warrants consideration. Either way thanks for the feedback.

 

I don't have them typed up, but I can link them or we could sort something to send the files

 

Though he was apparently fought close in his first fight with Murphy
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/120657434?searchTerm=griffo

 

He was a raging alcoholic who made Kelly Pavlik and John L Sullivan look tea total.

He often turned up to fights drunk.

The fact he could fight so many rounds, **** faced, and the opposition barely lays a glove on him is insane.

 

did his opposition also show up to fight in a similar inebriated manner?

 

He was apparently in good shape for that fight, it was pretty early in his career, when he was still at featherweight and in Aus

 

Not from what I've read.

Also a lot of the tales of how drunk he was came after the fact, so the level of inebriation and the specific fights are hard to gauge.

But it is a fact he was an alcoholic throughout his prime and his biggest fight often saw him come in drunk.

 

It's hard to know exactly when it became a big problem for him, it's a shame he outgrew the division so quickly. Especially the way his fights went with Dixon and Erne.

 

I'm now finalised with HW through FW.

Just two divisions to go and I'm done.

This has been epic and amazing.

For years now I've just ranked on mythical matchups, I haven't looked at "greatness" for ages, probably about 5/6 years on these boards.

I still think there's a place for H2H lists, but this has been much more fun than I thought it would be.

 

Out of curiosity is Tommy Hearns missing from your WW list? Unless it is an oversight I think it is interesting that you have him at 18 P4P but not in the WW top 15.