SURVEY CLOSED

Personally I’m surprised Dale Cooper hasn’t come up on anyone’s top 25 ATG list yet, I know Rummy holds him in very high regards

 

@George Crowcroft

I like this project, but there's way too many great fighters I know too little about to make lists I'm happy with, and trying to have a comprehensive knowledge of boxing history has never been my aim. I look forward to the results though/

 

Im a bit in over my head at Fly, Bantam & Feather, but that’s why I’m glad we got a good time frame

 

If you're saying that, I'm completely ****ed.

 

You know, @McGrain's 50 greatest per division lists are so bloody good (and an ongoing source which I frequently return to) that I had to almost disregard those to not be overtly influenced by them. As a consequence, I may have missed some very good fighters and Lewis is probably one of them at light heavy.

I'll have a think about where to place him.

 

I hope no one takes this the wrong way, I get these lists are hard to do, and I don't want to make the post overly long, so sorry if it comes across as blunt of smart assed. Just ones I'd either like an explaination of, or would question.

A lot of are similar, so maybe my opinions are just a bit odd lol. I don't think any are bad lists

@Jel
Why do you have Freddie Welsh over McFarland?
Why is Dixon over McGovern at feather, but McGovern higher P4P?
Why is Walcot over Tommy Ryan at Welterweight?
Why is Tommy Ryan ranked at Middlleweight, but no Kid McCoy?

@lufcrazy
Walcott is way too high for me, especially so far ahead of Ryan

@George Crowcroft
Again odd to rank Dixon ahead of McGovern at featherweight for me, and McGovern higher at Bantam and P4P

@McGrain
Again Ryan at Middle but no McCoy
I also think Lavigne should be higher than Erne and McAuliffle, but of well

Hope none of you take any of that the wrong way, just meant as a bit of input for if anyone is interested.

 

Man Walcott was knocking out heavyweights.

And as well, you have to be really careful with losses on coloured fighters records back then. If it doesn't make sense, there's probably more to it.

 

I think Choynski is the only heavyweight Walcott KOed, and he was getting passed it.

You have to account for racist bias, but I don't think you can write off losses without good reason.

I think he was an extremely dangerous fighter, but not unbeatable.

I personally think it's enough to establish him, I think his wins over Ryan and Creedon are better than any of Ryan's at the weight, though obviously there's some asterixs with the Ryan win

Fair enough, I'd personally put Erne a bit below the other 2, though he arguably has the two best wins of any of them

 

These are the healthy questions and discussions we need, it is a forum after all.

 

Re Welsh and McFarland, h2h McFarland had the edge (although not by a major degree) but Welsh was maybe at his absolute peak later, doing his best work after McFarland retired. It's close between them though and I could be persuaded the other way.

Re McGovern over Dixon, I've rated McGovern higher at bantam than Dixon and not much between them at featherweight so that's pretty much the reason.

Not fully set on my postioning at WW and MW - will have a think on Walcott and Ryan at WW.

 

FLY
1. Jimmy Wilde
2. Miguel Canto
3. Pascual Perez
4. Frankie Genaro
5. Midget Wolgast
6. Benny Lynch
7. Pancho Villa
8. Pone Kingpetch
9. Chatchai Chionoi
10. Masao Ohba
11. Betulio Gonzalez
12. Horatio Accavallo
13. Hiroyuki Ebihara
14. Peter Kane
15. Sot Chitalada

BANTAM
1. Ruben Olivares
2. Eder Jofre
3. Manuel Ortiz
4. Pete Herman
5. Carlos Zarate
6. Fighting Harada
7. Lionel Rose
8. Memphis Pal Moore
9. Joe Lynch
10. Kid Williams
11. Panama Al Brown
12. Rafael Herrera
13. Chucho Castillo
14. Bud Taylor
15. Johnny Coulon

FEATHER
1. Willie Pep
2. Sandy Saddler
3. Vicente Saldivar
4. George Dixon
5. Salvador Sanchez
6. Abe Attell
7. Freddie Miller
8. Johnny Kilbane
9. Eusebio Pedroza
10. Henry Armstrong
11. Kid Chocolate
12. Alexis Arguello
13. Young Corbett II
14. Terry McGovern
15. Sugar Ramos

LIGHT
1. Benny Leonard
2. Joe Gans
3. Roberto Duran
4. Ike Williams
5. Pernell Whitaker
6. Carlos Ortiz
7. Packey McFarland
8. Tony Canzoneri
9. Joe Brown
10. Lou Ambers
11. Freddie Welsh
12. Sammy Angott
13. Sammy Mandell
14. Henry Armstrong
15. Bob Montgomery

WELTER
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sugar Ray Leonard
3. Jose Napoles
4. Emile Griffith
5. Jack Britton
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Kid Gavilan
8. Barbados Joe Walcott
9. Barney Ross
10. Jimmy McLarnin
11. Thomas Hearns
12. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
13. Ted Lewis
14. Jackie Fields
15. Mickey Walker

MIDDLE
1. Harry Greb
2. Carlos Monzon
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Sugar Ray Robinson
5. Stanley Ketchel
6. Charley Burley
7. Bernard Hopkins
8. Jake LaMotta
9. Dick Tiger
10. Freddie Steele
11. Mike Gibbons
12. Holman Williams
13. Tommy Ryan
14. Bob Fitzsimmons
15. Teddy Yarosz

LIGHT HEAVY
1. Ezzard Charles
2. Archie Moore
3. Michael Spinks
4. Harry Greb
5. Gene Tunney
6. Bob Foster
7. Tommy Loughran
8. John Henry Lewis
9. Jimmy Bivins
10. Harold Johnson
11. Matthew Saad Muhammad
12. Billy Conn
13. Jack Delaney
14. Roy Jones Jr.
15. Lloyd Marshall

HEAVY
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Rocky Marciano
5. George Foreman
6. Joe Frazier
7. Larry Holmes
8. Sonny Liston
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Wladimir Klitschko
11. Mike Tyson
12. Jack Johnson
13. Jack Dempsey
14. Harry Wills
15. James J. Jeffries

ALL TIME BEST
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Harry Greb
4. Sam Langford
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Mickey Walker
7. Roberto Duran
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Willie Pep
10. Joe Louis
11. Benny Leonard
12. Bob Fitzsimmons
13. Joe Gans
14. Archie Moore
15. Barney Ross
16. Terry McGovern
17. Sugar Ray Leonard
18. Tony Canzoneri
19. Jimmy McLarnin
20. Barbados Joe Walcott
21. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
22. Manny Pacquiao
23. George Dixon
24. Charley Burley
25. Jimmy Wilde

 

Good catch, tbh I didn't think them through below 135. I put my premade ones in and out Marcel and Betulio in (at FW and Fly) and left it there. Will change McGovern.

I'll be quite honest, I know next to nothing about Dixon's career, apart from his losses.

 

I used Mc's to make mine at the lower weights. Good stuff, although not having Yaqui Lopez top 50 at LHW was a bit of a blow.