Sven Ottke: Das Super Middleweight All Time Great-The Phantom Of The Spandau Ballet.

Clinton · Jan 31, 2016

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

Possibly that Dan is not only obese but also an idiot: Because he has obvious not seen any of these fight, but just repeat what he have heard (like Bert Sugar did): The Mundine bout was for the first six rounds competitive, then putted Ottke the pace up or Mundine tired and was outworked in the second half, while he was maybe with 4 points behind on my scorecard.
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Ok, so like I wrote previously, what does that have to do with me?:nut

bailey · Jan 31, 2016

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

At least at the time he retired was his achievement superior to Calzaghes:
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Possibly at that time. There is room for debate but definately not by the time Calzaghe had finished at SMW

Eubanks was fadded and lost already twice against Collins, while he moved up after it two weight-classes.
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Yet many felt Eubank won the first fight with Collins and the second fight was a SD, also Eubank was training for a fight in the weight above, so wasnt suddenly 2 divisions bigger and Eubank had also mentioned he could fight between 3 weight divisions, SMW LHW or CW so lets not try and bend how it was to suit, which is something you tend to do

L****n was higher ranked than Kessler, he was actually top 3 in Super-Middleweight when, while his fellow-countryman fought at that time only hand-picked opponents (like Dingaan Thobela, who lost about five of his previous fight in row or Andre Thysse, a leftover of Beyer), but only picked up the WBA title against paper-champion Manny Siaca (as substitute for Mads L****n, as who had a lawsuit against his promoter Morgens Palle for three years) and avoided the final WBC elimination fight vs. Danny Green.

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L****n isnt overall ranked higher than Kessler atsch. You are trying to big it up when L****n was more established in his career, but even then, you comment saying Kessler was fighting Thobela a former SMW champ where as L****n before facing Ottke was facing a 8-7-1 fighter :hi: who had not long previously lost to a 2-3-0 fighter, so stop trying to bend facts to suit.
Kessler was a far greater fighter than L****n when Calzaghe and Ottke respectively fought them

Jeff Lacy got the title only after Ottkes' retirement (otherwise he most likely never would have gotten it) against Syd Vanderpool (where he was behind on points), but failed actually against Sheika (who won only two rounds vs. Beyer and against Lucas not much more) and Tsypko.
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So Ottke decided against Lacy and retired?
Many titles are vacant when won. Brewer who Ottke won his first title won a vacant title that Jones vacated and we could say the same thing in otherwise he most likely would never have gotten it. See how you tie yourself up.
Also you fail to note that Beyer only fought Sheika when coming off a loss to Lacy. Forget that bit. In which case if you are using that logic, how can you rate Ottke higher when Calzaghe was far more emphatic in all common opponent wins than Ottke was? whoops there you go again

Mitchel and Brewer are on the other hands all time Super-Middleweight top twenty. Not only them, but also Beyer and Lucas were clearly better than Jeff Lacy, maybe even Danny Green, Rudy Markussen or James Butler. Anthony Mundine was also a lot more skillful, talented and quicker than Jeff Lacy, he has even with Echols the greater win of the two. Kessler defeated him just years after Ottke was retired and when Mundine already lost vs. Siaca (just as was knocked down against journeyman Nishizawa).

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Alot of this is just your opinion but lets break it down

Mitchel and Brewer are on the other hands all time Super-Middleweight top twenty.
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Calzaghe looked far more impressive with wins over them than Ottke and they are not rated as high as Eubank or Kessler or arguably Woodhall or Reid who Calzaghe beat before Ottke

Lacy has a win over Reid which is greater than Mundines over Echols. Think about it at SMW

Glen Johnson was robbed against Omar Sheika (like who was it vs. Lacy, when he was fadded).

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Lacy beat Sheika. It is history rewriters that would like to make more of a tough fight than there was and forget that after all of this that Sheika gave world rated LHW Diaconu a tough fight also.
It was a close fight between Sheika and Johnson but I wouldnt call it a robbery at all. I dont think you could hav ewatched it to be able to call it a robbery and it was Calzaghe that beat prime Sheika

So even when Ottke retired it is debateable as to whether his resume was greater than Calzaghes with Calzaghe having wins over Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Mitchell, Veit, Brewer, Sheika, Mkertchyan and definately not greater when you add in Veit again, Kessler, Lacy, Bika however you would like to spin it
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bailey · Jan 31, 2016

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

:good
Thats true! Not to forget Tibari was badly robbed against Toney when who was undefeated IBF Middleweight champion, just as was he far behind on points vs. Nunn (I think the official scorecards were all about 97 - 92 for the title-defender). And Ottke was never dopped; what we don't can claim of "Fat Tony"...:deal
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Its odd that some comment on Ottke for close fights but forget that Toney had many close fights and that isnt mentioned in the same way for some reason

madballster · Jan 31, 2016

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

Maybe because he prefered to sit on his WBO title and wouldn't have gotten five million Euros, as he got in the Veit rematch.
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The total purse was $1.75m for the Veit rematch. Calzaghe got something like 80% of that.

Glass Joe · Jan 31, 2016

bailey said: ↑

Its odd that some comment on Ottke for close fights but forget that Toney had many close fights and that isnt mentioned in the same way for some reason
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True. Toney is one my all-time favorite boxers, but still true.

Loudon · Jan 31, 2016

bailey said: ↑

Its funny how so many comment on Ottkes debateable decisions when they are only quoting what others have said.
People note Ottkes SDs but dont seem to be as tough on James Toney and all of his close fights

Here is an old post below

Alot of people who have never even seen Ottke talk about robberies in fights they have never seen. Or comment on close fights which could have gone either way, but it seems many forget about how it was similar with Toney.

Many feel Reid deserved the decision against Ottke
Many feel Tiberi deserved the decision against Toney

Ottke won a world title and beat a world champion in his 13th fight
Toney beat a 11-8-0 fighter in his 13th fight and had just drawn with S Williams 24-11-0 in his 12th fight

Now the fights which many felt were close or could have gone either way

For Ottke -
C Brewer 1
C Brewer 2
B Mitchell
M L****n
R Reid

For Toney-
S Williams
M Sosa
R Johnson
D Tiberi
M McCallum 1
M McCallum 2

Dont try and talk about levels because other than McCallum there isnt a great deal of difference in the levels and even then it took Toney 3 attempts to clearly beat McCallum, when McCallum was coming off of clear losses to Tiozzo and Jones.

Now lets look at the losses and draws
Toney lost to -
R Jones
M Griffin who was a 14 fight novice
M Griffin a 2nd time
D Thadzi

Toney drew with -
S Williams
M McCallum

Ottke - 0 defeats, 0 draws
Dont try and say G Johnson was a robbery, it wasnt. Johnson was out boxed. Watch the fight!

So why do people go on about Ottke having close fights and try and ignore the fact that Toney had close fights???
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Who's ignored that Toney had close fights?

Stallion · Feb 1, 2016

eltirado said: ↑

Fat Dan on Ottke HOF:

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Ottke needs to just make sure that when the ballot with his name arrives that I remember that fighters who reign for seven years and retire undefeated, no matter the circumstances, are rare. He'll probably get my vote eventually.
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I doubt that Sven Ottke is overly concerned about the actions of so called HOF and probably cares even less about a guy known as Fat Dan, someone Ottke probably hasn't ever heard of, and Dan's vote.

No matter how you put it, the Phantom is 34-0, no blueprint. :smoke

turnip · Feb 2, 2016

Stallion said: ↑

I doubt that Sven Ottke is overly concerned about the actions of so called HOF and probably cares even less about a guy known as Fat Dan, someone Ottke probably hasn't ever heard of, and Dan's vote.

No matter how you put it, the Phantom is 34-0, no blueprint. :smoke
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Lots of home cooking.

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