Take Leonard and Hagler out of history

Hearns would have probably flaked against someone like Curry or Starling anyway. Or he moves up because he cant make the weight. Maybe after beating Duran up in a welterweight superfight, and/or unifying with by beating Benitez.

He wouldn't do anything more at 154 than he did in reality. Probably less, if he'd already beaten Duran and Benitez at 147.
But if he goes up to 160 there are men there who can beat him, even in the abscence of The Marvelous One.

 

Not really, because I base it closely on what actually did happen.
Hearns would benefit because he'd take Leonard's place at welterweight, more or less. He'd be able to boast of holding a real world's championship in one of the traditional divisions, and no doubt many people would rate him as one of the best there ever.
Yes, he might even pick up the middleweight title briefly. If such a championship existed in the absence of Hagler.

 

1. Does Hearns become arguably the greatest in history? He may well dominate 3 divisions and still take the LHW title. Who would be the first to beat him?

No, removing two guys from a macrocosm composed of many doesn't mean that someone like Hearns would have become the very best in their absence. He could become the best, but there's no guarantee. I'd say that Hearns would be at the top of a heap of excellent fighters. Imagine men like Pryor, Arguello, Curry, McCrory, Starling, Kalule, Hope, Moore, McCallum (at a more prime weight), Ayala, Laing, etc, etc. Can Hearns make it past those guys?

2. How long does Tommy stay at WW for?

Nearly as long as he did last time. He couldn't handle the weight draining after his body had fully grown from what it was when he started boxing. He would probably stay in that weight till he can't take it anymore (physically).

3. What would the middleweight lineage look like?

For starters, a lot of Hagler diehards can find solace in the fact that Hagler vs Leonard never happened. The longer that debate runs on, the longer it appears that fight was better off not happening. As for the middleweight lineage? Alan Minter would probably hold the title a little longer or lose it to the dense contender pool. Look at the talent that could reach the championship level! It's staggering! There's a lot of "could-a been" fighters. I'd like to think that it would be almost like a power vacuum where the title is on a merry-go-round great fighters, but smart managers know how to keep a title (also determined fighters know how to "hold on to that stick"). If anybody ever wanted to fully answer this question, it would take a book of information and text to explain it. I'd pick fighters like Hamsho, Roldan, Kalambay, Graham, and Nunn to fill that space. Hearns would probably drop on by, win a title, and move on.

4. Does Duran never become WW Champ? (Benitez/Hearns are the champs when he moves up). I would assume he probably faces Hearns first, which is a nightmare style.

Duran is Duran. Hearns destroyed him before, it could happen again in this alternate universe. However, Duran got his ass handed to him and went on to win a title from Iran Barkley at a higher weight. Benitez and Hearns aren't his only choices. There's other welterweights at this time.


5. How is Durans legacy affected, if he still loses to Benitez/Hearns and doesnt have the Leonard win?

By this time Duran is already one of the greatest lightweights in the history of boxing. He's preserved by that effort, but not as thickly crystallized in boxing history. His win over Leonard makes it easy to argue Duran's talents only because Leonard was a boxing celebrity. It's that phenomenon where fighters like Ali and Leonard could create celebrities like Frazier and Duran to be their rivals. Everybody watches the celebrities, that ensures their fame, builds their ego, fuels their personalities. Another point I have is that it took a car accident to stop Duran from fighting. It sounds as silly as that "punched a horse" story, but he was still dabbling in the sport at that time (fought an aging Hector Camacho). The damage from the accident literally forced him to retire.

That provide anything for ya?

Oh, and I have one question that I don't have the time to answer. Who would have been in the Olympics if Sugar Ray didn't go?

 

Not much. To people who know boxing he's great because he's one of the greatest lightweights ever, primarily.
The Leonard win is big but it's just icing. Then again, I probably dont rate Leonard as high as most people here do.

 

Definitely don't think it's just icing. Leonard was by far the best fighter Duran ever faced, and the level of performance he pulled out multiplies his H2H value enormously. He'd still be a high-ranking ATG no doubt, but not Top 10.

 

Suuuuuure he would have :roll:

 

No, not sure. But it's a distinct possibility.

 

Distinct is still far too strong. He's never losing to Starling. Curry has an outside upset chance.

 

Someone earlier in the thread suggested "The Iceman" might get him. The only Iceman I can think of is Milt McCrory and he did absolutely NOTHING better than Hearns. He was a poor man's Hearn's at best. No chance.
Starling makes earmuffs the whole fight against Hearns. I just don't see where the offense is coming from nor the one punch power to get Tommy out of there.
I guess I could see Curry having an outside chance. I just don't think he had that other wordly grit, tenacity, and killer instinct that Leonard displayed against Tommy. Leonard hit Tommy with some huge shots and couldn't get him out of there cleanly. Leonard was also more committed to landing vicious bodyshots than I recall from Curry.

 

The Iceman would freeze harder than diamond against Hearns in a real fight. He completely froze even vs Curry.

 

I guess Barkley would still upset him... can't believe noone mentioned that. Maybe Hearns would get the nod in a rematch vs. Barkley... I thought Hearns won that rematch anyway.

So, wins over P. Cuevas, W. Benitez, R. Duran, Dennis Andries, J. Roldan, I. Barkley 1 out of 2, M. Olajide, V. Hill, and Nate Miller would still be on the resume I suppose.

I think fights vs. the likes of Curry, Starling, McCallum, or Nunn would become more of a possibility with Leonard and Hagler out of the picture.

 

It did take me a whole 17 minutes, once the thread opened...