Taking a look at Monzon's six best wins

wtf is this shyt? omg u are not even being contrite about your mess!

Mendoza, Machine DID NOT INITIATE THE MENTION OF GGG IN THIS THREAD.

IT IS IRRELEVANT THAT HE OR ANYONE HAS DISCUSSED GGG A HUNDRD TIMES IN A HUNDRED OTHER THREADS, THIS WAS ABOUT WHO BROUGHT GGG UP HERE, and the person who brought him up is CATEGORICALLY AND BLATANTLY, YOU.

OF COURSE GGG has been discused before in other threads!

 

@Mendoza

You are clearly just seeking to drag this discussion on, as far as you can, without really making any further impression; merely ignoring or misinterpreting facts presented to you, that challenge the significance of your 'data'; shifting the topic of focus and setting goalposts/definitions, in order to suit your agenda.

You have implied, on multiple occasions, that I somehow needed you to dig out results from boxrec.com. This, alone, illustrates the extent of your delusion.

You talk of welterweights winning the Middleweight Championship, as being rare. There are several Middleweight Champs, who started their careers fighting at Welterweight or lower... ...Emile Griffith springs to mind, immediately.


The real inconvenience for you is that, no matter how much you try and dump on established greats, Golovkin's career has been mainly spent on him knocking over ordinaries, until he faced something vaguely close to world class opposition (twice), and was stretched on both occasions - his vaunted power not really apparent in either bout.

There is no escaping this, whilst the consensus view on Monzon, Griffith, Benvenuti and Napoles is more or less cast and will remain so until a significant number of Great Middleweights follow in their wake.

You can try and build up Golovkin's opposition in your own mind, if you like (Murray ). Good luck with that, by the way.


This thread has run it's course, as far as my contribution is concerned. There is nothing left to discuss.

 

See the new one?lol
Same **** ,different day!

 

Ryan, Greb, Walker, Cerdan,Robinson,Griffith,Leonard won both titles.
Latzo
Dundee
Burley
Williams
Brouillard
Garcia
And a few hundred more competed in both divisions.

 

Yep. Kind of rips up yet another paper, by Mendoza.

I wouldn't mind the seemingly desperate inaccuracies so much, if they weren't so regularly laced with misrepresentations of points I'd made, in previous posts.

Very poor form and not the trait of any "researcher" I'd trust.

 

"Researcher " lol

 

I'm really enjoying reading this thread, as I'm learning new things about Monzon's career. But the issue with you, is that you don't really want to debate.

I've seen that across 2 threads now.

You love quoting and comparing statistics, but you're not prepared to have an objective debate.

You also don't allow for circumstances.

It's a real shame. Because if you were more open to debate, the thread would be a lot better.

These guys here have become frustrated and annoyed with you, and I can see why.

On this thread, you are debating in the exact manner that you did on the other thread regarding GG. I tried to debate with you there, but you let yourself down badly. When I mentioned James Toney and Mike McCallum, all you could muster as a response was:

"Wasn't he the guy who was famous for losing and drawing"

"He lost to Tiberi"

Now I suggest that you go and regroup, and then come back and have actual debate. Not one what's just based on stats spun from a certain angle, but an actual debate where you consider all factors and you respect the views of other knowledgeable posters.

 

It's a waste of time.

Your response here just highlights that.

Yes, Tiberi was a bad night for James. But the point is, you've focused solely on that, without taking into account everything else he did.

It was the same with McCallum.

You only want to debate on stats.

You also like to focus on a fighter's early weight class, where you can then type 'A blown up...." when discussing what they did later at higher weights.

Obviously, you're a huge fan of GG's. And the fact that somebody rates Carlos higher has upset you, which is why you've created this thread.

I'll leave you with the following points:

1. Mike McCallum would also have remained undefeated had he have followed GG's exact timeline.

2. GG was held to a draw by a blown up JMW, who himself was easily beaten by a blown up SFW.

 

GREAT point here !!!! You just successfully discredited every fighter Pac and Duran beat … Your boxing knowledge is off the chart !!!

 

Some people might overrate Carlos.

It happens.

People frequently both overrate and underrate fighters on this forum.

Regarding Mike, what difference does it make if he lost to Sumbu Kalambay?

Yes, he had close decisions.

Why don't you look at who they were against?

If you continually fight great fighters who are at their peak, then you're going to have close fights.

Going off topic, but who would Mike have lost to on GG's resume?

The bigger question, is whether or not GG could go undefeated following Mike's timeline.

Debating on stats alone aren't going to cut it.

Regarding the weights, everybody back then weighed less on fight night, as they had same day weigh-ins.

GG weighs in on fight night as a SMW.

Canelo weighing 175 just means he's not going to be as mobile.

 

Wish this discussion could have gone better. I don’t agree with Mendoza’s viewpoint on Monzon, but it seems like certain posters are “ganging up” against him

Use your knowledge, education, and advanced writing skills to debate in a positive, friendly manner.

Let’s keep things civil