Taking Punches is NOT a Talent...Proven By Margarita

Mistadobalina · Jan 26, 2009

djtech2k8 said: ↑

I know that I have heard SO many endearing statements about fighters that "can take a punch" and so much hatred for those that are viewed that cannot. What I would like to see is for true boxing fans to acknowledge that "taking a punch" is NOT a talent and should not be confused as talent.

First, you have to know the difference between good defense and taking a punch. Good defense is something like PBF of Toney uses with that shoulder roll or great head movement. In some defenses, like Winky Wright, he "takes" a lot of punches, but on the guard. That is good defense. That is FAR different than getting hit in the face and not flinching. Good defense is a talent and is learned, while some of it is a true fighters instinct. Taking punches in the face or being tough is NOT a skill. It is certainly valuable in boxing, but it is not learned. It is a physical strength if you want to call it that. Its merely a physical attribute that allows someone to handle blunt force to the head better than others.

I think that a good defense can help a fighter know how to take a punch so that it lessens the impact, eg like better angles. I think a skilled, experienced fighter knows how to handle getting hit when they are more tired and how to remain calm. That is a skill and experience thing. However, Margarita has been praised for being the "best" or "so good" , etc, but in reality he has never been that good. I am not just saying this after this fight, I have been saying it all along. Margarita's best so-called "skill" has been his ability to take a punch and keep coming. That is not a skill.

Skill is what Sugar Shane showed him last night in many different ways.

This is not just something that deals with Margarita, but he is a prime example of it. Taking a punch is not a skill. It is handy in fighting, but its not a talent. So when really tough guys like Margarita come along, please dont talk about them like they are so skillful and elite because they are not. They may be tough guys, which deserves respect, but not revered as skillful artists. That they are not.

Last night was a very solid set of proof for this theory. Shane Moseley outclassed Margo on every level possible. He is a smarter, more talented fighter. There is nothing more to be said. Margo may be able to beat some good guys at WW, but he will never be an elite fighter like Sugar Shane or PBF.

Margo does have heart and is tough, so I repect the hell out of him for that. I am not a fan of his, but he gets my respect.

I just think that true fans either do know or should recognize that taking punishment is not a talent, as was shown yet again last night.
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holy ****in' repetitiveness, batman!

you could've just made your whole point in one paragraph. every sentence was practically a reiteration of the one previous.

skill, talent...skill....not a skill..not talent...that is not this...that is not that...

djtech2k8 · Jan 27, 2009

fleaman said: ↑

A very, very good post by the thread starter....don't think I was aware of you before but welcome to ESB!
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Thanks very much. I have been around here for several years, but have not always posted.

The_Hitman92 · Jan 27, 2009

Being able to walk through a big punch basically un fazed is a god given talent however

boricua100% · Jan 27, 2009

djtech2k8 said: ↑

I know that I have heard SO many endearing statements about fighters that "can take a punch" and so much hatred for those that are viewed that cannot. What I would like to see is for true boxing fans to acknowledge that "taking a punch" is NOT a talent and should not be confused as talent.

First, you have to know the difference between good defense and taking a punch. Good defense is something like PBF of Toney uses with that shoulder roll or great head movement. In some defenses, like Winky Wright, he "takes" a lot of punches, but on the guard. That is good defense. That is FAR different than getting hit in the face and not flinching. Good defense is a talent and is learned, while some of it is a true fighters instinct. Taking punches in the face or being tough is NOT a skill. It is certainly valuable in boxing, but it is not learned. It is a physical strength if you want to call it that. Its merely a physical attribute that allows someone to handle blunt force to the head better than others.

I think that a good defense can help a fighter know how to take a punch so that it lessens the impact, eg like better angles. I think a skilled, experienced fighter knows how to handle getting hit when they are more tired and how to remain calm. That is a skill and experience thing. However, Margarita has been praised for being the "best" or "so good" , etc, but in reality he has never been that good. I am not just saying this after this fight, I have been saying it all along. Margarita's best so-called "skill" has been his ability to take a punch and keep coming. That is not a skill.

Skill is what Sugar Shane showed him last night in many different ways.

This is not just something that deals with Margarita, but he is a prime example of it. Taking a punch is not a skill. It is handy in fighting, but its not a talent. So when really tough guys like Margarita come along, please dont talk about them like they are so skillful and elite because they are not. They may be tough guys, which deserves respect, but not revered as skillful artists. That they are not.

Last night was a very solid set of proof for this theory. Shane Moseley outclassed Margo on every level possible. He is a smarter, more talented fighter. There is nothing more to be said. Margo may be able to beat some good guys at WW, but he will never be an elite fighter like Sugar Shane or PBF.

Margo does have heart and is tough, so I repect the hell out of him for that. I am not a fan of his, but he gets my respect.

I just think that true fans either do know or should recognize that taking punishment is not a talent, as was shown yet again last night.
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:goodVery Good observations!

debaser · Jan 27, 2009

djtech2k8 said: ↑

I know that I have heard SO many endearing statements about fighters that "can take a punch" and so much hatred for those that are viewed that cannot. What I would like to see is for true boxing fans to acknowledge that "taking a punch" is NOT a talent and should not be confused as talent.

First, you have to know the difference between good defense and taking a punch. Good defense is something like PBF of Toney uses with that shoulder roll or great head movement. In some defenses, like Winky Wright, he "takes" a lot of punches, but on the guard. That is good defense. That is FAR different than getting hit in the face and not flinching. Good defense is a talent and is learned, while some of it is a true fighters instinct. Taking punches in the face or being tough is NOT a skill. It is certainly valuable in boxing, but it is not learned. It is a physical strength if you want to call it that. Its merely a physical attribute that allows someone to handle blunt force to the head better than others.

I think that a good defense can help a fighter know how to take a punch so that it lessens the impact, eg like better angles. I think a skilled, experienced fighter knows how to handle getting hit when they are more tired and how to remain calm. That is a skill and experience thing. However, Margarita has been praised for being the "best" or "so good" , etc, but in reality he has never been that good. I am not just saying this after this fight, I have been saying it all along. Margarita's best so-called "skill" has been his ability to take a punch and keep coming. That is not a skill.

Skill is what Sugar Shane showed him last night in many different ways.

This is not just something that deals with Margarita, but he is a prime example of it. Taking a punch is not a skill. It is handy in fighting, but its not a talent. So when really tough guys like Margarita come along, please dont talk about them like they are so skillful and elite because they are not. They may be tough guys, which deserves respect, but not revered as skillful artists. That they are not.

Last night was a very solid set of proof for this theory. Shane Moseley outclassed Margo on every level possible. He is a smarter, more talented fighter. There is nothing more to be said. Margo may be able to beat some good guys at WW, but he will never be an elite fighter like Sugar Shane or PBF.

Margo does have heart and is tough, so I repect the hell out of him for that. I am not a fan of his, but he gets my respect.

I just think that true fans either do know or should recognize that taking punishment is not a talent, as was shown yet again last night.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's best described as "talent" but the ability to take a punch is usually an essential ingredient in making it to the top ( with a few exceptions). The fighters you mention there have proven their ability to take a shot. Both Toney and Wright have soaked up huge bombs throughout their careers. Despite both having great defensive ability they would not have achieved what they have if they did not have the punch resistance to go alongside it. Take Amir Khan for example, good power, phenomenal speed and good movement but his lack of ability to take a shot has meant that his careers is already in tatters.

pit · Jan 27, 2009

Lance_Uppercut said: ↑

Getting stopped by Shane doesn't change the fact that he took a lot of heavy punched plat. Did Erik Morales all of as sudden NOT have a good chin because Pac Ko'd him? Let me guess, Jones jr ALWAYS had a bad chin too? I know you don't believe those.
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No, having a good chin , is like have good hand speed , is a asset but should not be considered a skill . As we all know fighters will lose there speed , just like fighters , will lose there ability to take punishment and if you don't have the skills after these asset are gone then your done as a fighter.

pit · Jan 27, 2009

debaser said: ↑

I don't know if it's best described as "talent" but the ability to take a punch is usually an essential ingredient in making it to the top ( with a few exceptions). The fighters you mention there have proven their ability to take a shot. Both Toney and Wright have soaked up huge bombs throughout their careers. Despite both having great defensive ability they would not have achieved what they have if they did not have the punch resistance to go alongside it. Take Amir Khan for example, good power, phenomenal speed and good movement but his lack of ability to take a shot has meant that his careers is already in tatters.
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True .. but the major difference is they don't rely on there ability to take a punch , they rely on there boxing skill and defense. Margarito on the other hand, relies only on his ability to take punishment.

Scar · Jan 27, 2009

Pride over defense and money baby!

David_TheMan · Jan 27, 2009

I agree with this post and I hope all the Andrade fans take it to heart as well.

nervousxtian · Jan 27, 2009

I think we are discrediting Margarito a bit here. That was not the only thing that got him to the top of the division. He wasn't all chin. He's no SSM or PBF.. but he still has skills, he punches hard, and has great stamina and work-rate. If you are judging him only off the Shane fight and disregarding all his previous efforts than you are doing the sport a disservice.

Styles make fights. It can never be said enough. Mosley loses to Cotto loses to Tony loses to Mosley. Nice circle there, and it's because of styles. Margarito could infact beatdown Cotto yet again.. and I don't think we'd be all that surprised... and Cotto could infact beat Mosley yet again as well. It's style match-ups.

djtech2k8 · Jan 27, 2009

nervousxtian said: ↑

I think we are discrediting Margarito a bit here. That was not the only thing that got him to the top of the division. He wasn't all chin. He's no SSM or PBF.. but he still has skills, he punches hard, and has great stamina and work-rate. If you are judging him only off the Shane fight and disregarding all his previous efforts than you are doing the sport a disservice.

Styles make fights. It can never be said enough. Mosley loses to Cotto loses to Tony loses to Mosley. Nice circle there, and it's because of styles. Margarito could infact beatdown Cotto yet again.. and I don't think we'd be all that surprised... and Cotto could infact beat Mosley yet again as well. It's style match-ups.
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I agree with you for some of that. I agree that Margo is not all chin and has some skills, but he is very limited. The vast majority of his "strengths" are predicated off of his ability to take punishment. That could be said for a lot of things, but he does not stand out with anything other than maybe conditioning. Margo is quite 1 dimensional. My post was not meant to be a reflection of just this fight. I was just pointing out that this fight was yet another example of the point.

Styles do determine a lot, but true skill and talent will get a win many more times than not.

surreal deal · Jan 27, 2009

Mistadobalina said: ↑

holy ****in' repetitiveness, batman!

you could've just made your whole point in one paragraph. every sentence was practically a reiteration of the one previous.

skill, talent...skill....not a skill..not talent...that is not this...that is not that...
Click to expand...

:goodThanks.I know its getting rave reviews but i didnt read beyond the first paragraph and you have informed me i didnt need to.
I agree with his sentiment though.

Holsten81 · Jan 27, 2009

whilst taking a good shot is not an art its a definite plus.

djtech2k8 · Jan 27, 2009

Agreed. Its great to have, but not something to rave about like its a talent.

nhojrem · Jan 27, 2009

djtech2k8 said: ↑

I know that I have heard SO many endearing statements about fighters that "can take a punch" and so much hatred for those that are viewed that cannot. What I would like to see is for true boxing fans to acknowledge that "taking a punch" is NOT a talent and should not be confused as talent.

First, you have to know the difference between good defense and taking a punch. Good defense is something like PBF of Toney uses with that shoulder roll or great head movement. In some defenses, like Winky Wright, he "takes" a lot of punches, but on the guard. That is good defense. That is FAR different than getting hit in the face and not flinching. Good defense is a talent and is learned, while some of it is a true fighters instinct. Taking punches in the face or being tough is NOT a skill. It is certainly valuable in boxing, but it is not learned. It is a physical strength if you want to call it that. Its merely a physical attribute that allows someone to handle blunt force to the head better than others.

I think that a good defense can help a fighter know how to take a punch so that it lessens the impact, eg like better angles. I think a skilled, experienced fighter knows how to handle getting hit when they are more tired and how to remain calm. That is a skill and experience thing. However, Margarita has been praised for being the "best" or "so good" , etc, but in reality he has never been that good. I am not just saying this after this fight, I have been saying it all along. Margarita's best so-called "skill" has been his ability to take a punch and keep coming. That is not a skill.

Skill is what Sugar Shane showed him last night in many different ways.

This is not just something that deals with Margarita, but he is a prime example of it. Taking a punch is not a skill. It is handy in fighting, but its not a talent. So when really tough guys like Margarita come along, please dont talk about them like they are so skillful and elite because they are not. They may be tough guys, which deserves respect, but not revered as skillful artists. That they are not.

Last night was a very solid set of proof for this theory. Shane Moseley outclassed Margo on every level possible. He is a smarter, more talented fighter. There is nothing more to be said. Margo may be able to beat some good guys at WW, but he will never be an elite fighter like Sugar Shane or PBF.

Margo does have heart and is tough, so I repect the hell out of him for that. I am not a fan of his, but he gets my respect.

I just think that true fans either do know or should recognize that taking punishment is not a talent, as was shown yet again last night.
Click to expand...

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Taking Punches is NOT a Talent...Proven By Margarita

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