Talk about what Haye was reduced to, not what he "didn't" do.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by gooners!!, Jul 3, 2011.


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  1. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    Everytime a fighter cooperates with what Wlad's doing, its not because of what HE is doing, its apparently about what the opponent is NOT doing, only sooner or later when you start seeing a pattern emerging, you gotta start asking yourself whether this is a coincidence, that these guys trap off about what they're GOING to do, but then dont do it when they get in there.
     
    gooners!!, Jul 3, 2011
    gooners!!, Jul 3, 2011
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  2. marciano22

    marciano22 Member Full Member

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    There is a patern of course but there is also a patern of bad heavyweights who can't capitalise on opportunities.

    Haye showed yesterday that Wlad can be surprised
     
    marciano22, Jul 3, 2011
    marciano22, Jul 3, 2011
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  3. MagicMan91

    MagicMan91 The Main Event Mafia Full Member

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    Spot on. It's one of my pet hates after fights tbh. "Oh, he didn't do this" "He should have done that." Chances are, he couldn't do this or that because of what his opponent was doing. That goes for all fights as well, not just Klitschko ones
     
    MagicMan91, Jul 3, 2011
    MagicMan91, Jul 3, 2011
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  4. madballster

    madballster Loyal Member Full Member

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    Wlad only allowed Haye to do so much.

    All this belittlement of Wlad's previous opposition has been exposed as wrong. Haye didn't look much better than Peter I or Thompson did against Wlad. His defense was better but his offense (and willingness to take risk) was much worse.

    Wlad makes them all look bad because he hits them without getting hit (much).
     
    madballster, Jul 3, 2011
    madballster, Jul 3, 2011
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  5. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    That's established though imo, I know if we need to constantly bemoan the fact and talk about how the competition isn't upto scratch, lets just give a guy credit for what he did neutralize his opponent.

    Haye is probably a better fighter than he showed, which might speak of the effectiveness of what Wlad was able to make! him do.
     
    gooners!!, Jul 3, 2011
    gooners!!, Jul 3, 2011
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  6. Big Left

    Big Left Boxing Addict Full Member

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    yep, Wlad dominate Haye with his jab. Haye was not willing to try and get inside at all and this is all down to Wlad's jab and strengh.
     
    Big Left, Jul 3, 2011
    Big Left, Jul 3, 2011
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  7. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    And that's WHY he was better defensively, than he was offensively imo. Haye had to substitute one, to be effective at the other.
     
    gooners!!, Jul 3, 2011
    gooners!!, Jul 3, 2011
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  8. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    You know what it seems to be? That old saying......" dont let the truth get in the way of a good story", its easier to chastise Haye, the guy a lot of people brought into, put their faith in, for coming up short, so lets make the assertion its more about what he DIDN'T do, rather than how good Wlad was.

    What people dont seem to realize imo, is that like I said in my other post....

    Haye was better defensively, than he was offensively, because Haye had to substitute one, to be effective at the other, he couldn't do both, and that was done Wladimir, not Haye.
     
    gooners!!, Jul 3, 2011
    gooners!!, Jul 3, 2011
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  9. madballster

    madballster Loyal Member Full Member

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    That summarizes it perfectly for me.

    Some people were now writing: "Oh look, Haye had good reflexes and good defense, he just should have hit more while keeping up the good defense". What they don't understand is that against a guy like Wlad it's very hard to have one with the other.

    Either you focus on not getting hit vs. Wlad then you stink out the joint and lose a wide UD (like Ibragimov or Haye) or you come in guns blazing, take a risk and have a chance of knocking Wlad out or going on on your shield (Sanders or Peter I). That's what it boils down to.

    Haye simply wasn't willing to bet the farm on an all-out assault. This has nothing to do with his boxing or skill inability, but rather with the willingness - or the lack thereof - to risk being knocked the **** out by Wlad.

    You can't beat Wlad if you don't take risks. You can pull a defensive stinker but you won't ever win like that.
     
    madballster, Jul 3, 2011
    madballster, Jul 3, 2011
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  10. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    Exactly.

    Anyone can survive, disengage if they're not trying to win, cause they cant get anything done offensively whilst maintaining the same kind of defense.


    Exacty, that's why I suggested Wlad could do it both ends. You either get marooned at range getting disengaged, or you go foward, and move close to his power hand, which is just as dangerous.

    That's what I was trying to get across to Haye fans before the fight, they were saying all he has to do is take away the jab, NO, he has to take away the jab and mount his offense. You dont win rounds by making someone miss or fall short.


    Both Wlad and Haye have shaky chins, difference is, Wlad didn't have to extend himself and open up, cause he had the advantages to control range, so the emphasis fell to Haye, only Haye couldn't do anything offensively whilst maintaining his defense, and that was always gonna be a problem, cause he aint got a good chin, or defense when he's aggressive.
     
    gooners!!, Jul 3, 2011
    gooners!!, Jul 3, 2011
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  11. RDJ

    RDJ Boxing Junkie banned

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    Waldo showed that he no longer panics when it happens.
     
    RDJ, Jul 3, 2011
    RDJ, Jul 3, 2011
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  12. marciano22

    marciano22 Member Full Member

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    True
     
    marciano22, Jul 3, 2011
    marciano22, Jul 3, 2011
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  13. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    :good
     
    kirk, Jul 3, 2011
    kirk, Jul 3, 2011
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  14. BoxingDomain

    BoxingDomain Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :good

    The reason they don't do it, is because Wladimir is a superior boxer who DOES NOT ALLOW his opponent to control the fight. Wladimir controls the fight, and does what he wants to do in the ring, NOT what his opponent wants. :D
     
    BoxingDomain, Jul 3, 2011
    BoxingDomain, Jul 3, 2011
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  15. joeboxer

    joeboxer Well-Known Member Full Member

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    AGreed. I'ts not fun to watch.. but it is impressive that time after time fighters say they're going to take it to Klitschko but his combo of size, speed and footwork prevent it.
     
    joeboxer, Jul 3, 2011
    joeboxer, Jul 3, 2011
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