Tarver KO Jones >>> Buster KO Iron Mike. Change my mind!

At the time Jones was knocked out a case could possibly be made that the Tarver KO was better. Knowing what we now know, there is no chance. Tyson still had a lot left while Jones was done as a top fighter.

 

I think the Tarver KO took Roys Punch resistance. Im not one of those folks who believe he never had a chin to begin with.
I saw him take plenty of shots, not a real beating but plenty of hard flush shots.
He spent alot of time on the ropes letting guys swing at him even before Tarver and all of a sudden after Tarver he goes straight to sleep, no in between, rarely gets hurt or just dropped(the way other glass chinned fighters do often). Always straight to sleep.
Got to be some sort of brain damage

 

Tyson was in his physical prime against a guy who always failed in step up fights. It was much more shocking.

Jones was past prime and had struggled with Tarver in the first match. People thought it was the weight loss, but in truth he had been sliding for a couple years. But seeing him KTFO with one punch definitely was quite a turn of events. Both memorable bouts to be sure!

 

RJJ was totally reliant on speed. Perhaps more than any other ATG ever. Speed is the first thing to leave a fighter with age. Somebody who is totally reliant on speed is done at 35. It's not like he was Hopkins or Mayweather who actually knew how to box. Once the speed went he was finished.

 

I'm too young to remember Douglas beating Tyson. But I definitely remember Jones losing to Tarver. I was a massive Roy fan and I was in total shock!! Roy was just so dominant in his career previously.. it's hard to describe to people who didn't watch boxing at the time. He was THE man, by some distance. I honestly expected him to wipe the floor with Tarver in the rematch. In hindsight though, Jones was done at top level. Once the speed and reflexes which underpinned his style went, the wheels came off quickly and dramatically. Really, he did well to get to 34(?) before those traits disappeared. It's a shame he carried on for so long after he was evidently finished.

 

I think you have a very strong argument. Roy fought very competitively against Tarver in the first fight regardless of what you think of the decision. He was a far cry from a prime Roy Jones Jr and was clearly in decline, but he still looked like a world class fighter to me. He got beat up badly in the corners from Tarver's body attack as well as Tarver break through Roy's high guard with left straights and looping left hooks around it. But Roy came back with hard lead rights to the head and used his jab effectively to set up thudding straight rights and hooks to the body. It's undeniable that the Roy's weight gain to heavyweight was the beginning of the end for his career, but I think it would inaccurate to state that it all happened overnight in the first Tarver fight. He fought relatively well considering that he was in rapid decline and Tarver was a good fighter who was in his peak.

Then Tarver knocked him out cold in the rematch and Roy was never the same. But you can't use the result itself to claim that Roy went from maybe the greatest peak in boxing history according to some to a washed up overnight. He was clearly on he decline anyway, but that knockout had a great deal to do with accelerating that decline in my opinion.

Buster's performance against Tyson was spectacular and it's true that Tyson went on to beat some good fighters after that defeat. But Tyson's performance was really dreadful that night aside from one awesome uppercut. I felt like Roy was in better form during the first Tarver fight than Tyson was for the Douglas fight.

You have to judge the performances and caliber of the fighters at the time of the fight, not just what they went on to do later. I'm not saying that their future success wasn't relevant, but a single knockout can ruin the career of a good or great fighter instantaneously. It doesn't prove that they were completely shot when they got knocked out, though.

 

I wasnt old enough to remember Tyson losing to Douglas. I remember him losing to Holyfield though. Boxing was huge back then, everyone in school was talking about it. Everyone.

Lewis losing to Rahman was huge.

AJ losing to Ruiz was up there as well.

 

Of course, from a cultural standpoint no fighter ever, except for perhaps the great Muhammad Ali, had the kind of mystique that Mike Tyson had. Roy Jones was a huge star and cultural icon who transcended the sport in many ways, but he wasn't Mike Tyson. If you ask non-boxing fans if they know who Roy Jones is, you'll get mixed responses. But everybody knows who Mike Tyson is. Knocking out Roy Jones won't make you the same kind of cultural enigma that knocking out Mike Tyson will in the eyes of the general public. That's just how it goes.

 

Good post. I remember thinking at the time 'Oh he might be declining' but there was so much talk around about him having to lose excess weight after the Ruiz fight, Tarver might be his bogeyman etc, etc. I thought the rematch would answer some of those questions - which it did, obviously.
But it wasn't really until the Glen Johnson fight that I felt I saw the full extent and speed of the decline - he looked awful in that fight; slow, hittable, constantly on the ropes. He seemed to have lost all snap and energy. I thought he was done for sure after that one. It's amazing he carried on for so long after.
Like you, I now think Tarver accelerated Roy's decline with a hard first fight and the knockout in the second. He was certainly never the same after Tarver 1 - and the last time I felt I saw 'Roy Jones' - as we knew him - was in the heavyweight win. The Roy we knew for all those years between '93 and '03 never appeared again.

 

That should've been Roy's first cue that something wasn't gonna go right for him in the rematch and while it was a surprising KO lol, it comes nowhere even near what Douglas did to Tyson. Douglas put a beatdown on Tyson like no one else ever managed to do again not even Holyfield, then went for a spectacular KO finish that was photogenic as much as Ali flooring Liston. It also set the sports betting record at 42-1. Tyson was on top of the world at the time even being in decline. No one thought he could be beat. Douglas, probably one of the last guys in the division you'd think would have the ability to beat Tyson, beat him.

 

It is not even close and it shouldn't be open for debate.

Tyson was CRUSHING opponents and rather easily.
Douglas always came up short in big fights and he was such an underdog that you couldn't bet on him in most sports books because of the insane odds.
Jones struggled badly with Tarver in the first fight and the writing was on the wall.
Now while Roy getting knocked out was surprising it wasn't even close to when Douglas knocked out Tyson.
Roy by the way had an incredible boxing IQ in addition to his reflexs to all the younger posters who just think he was just successful because he was fast. Hate to tell you but Roy could also crack pretty good.

 

In retrospect Tyson was not the best fighter ever. But going into that fight with Douglass, I suspect Vegas would have had Tyson the favorite over any fighter who ever lived.

 

The weight loss was a problem for Jones after winning the HW title, he just wasn't the same fighter and it showed in the first fight with Tarver as well. Tyson as a 42-1 favorite to win, I don't think anybody expected Douglas to pull it off, including himself, but he fought with confidence and Ultimately it paid off. Douglas' KO of Tyson was much more shocking to me imo knowing what I know now. Tarvers KO of Jones was impressive in its own right though.

 

Yep. It did.

And, it took his auroa. His belief. That punch ruined his career. Changed him as a fighter for good.