Tavoris Cloud- Smartest guy in the room?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Rock0052, Jun 4, 2009.


  1. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

    34,250
    5,943
    Apr 30, 2006
    Something's been nagging at me lately, and I mentioned it briefly in another thread, but wanted to post it here so it doesn't get lost. You guys know I'm no Chad Dawson nuthugger, but I have to stick up for him on this whole Tavoris Cloud issue. On the surface, it looks normal enough- Chad's had mandatory issues before and vacated a belt, so it's easier to believe it could happen again. Just more of the same, right?

    Thing is, nobody's mentioned Cloud's gameplan here- and I don't know how much of it is Cloud's plan, but I'm going to refer to it that way for simplicity. What we've got is this:

    1) Cloud's fought one guy who could pass for a live body. To his credit, he did look very good in that fight.

    2) Upon winning his mandatory spot, instead of trying to refine his skills and patch up some holes in his game (which he needs for the next level) and making a bigger name for himself (which he also desperately needs), we get.....nothing. No stay busy fights, no chance to build on the career momentum fo himself, nothin'. It'll be a year between fights.

    3) There's a good chance that Chad's going to drop to 168 with no title and no big LHW fights on the horizon, leaving the division wide open for one of the unknowns, like Cloud, to emerge.

    Which brings me to my main point- is it possible that Cloud's been laying low this entire time on purpose in order to make himself so unattractive to Dawson that Chad just says the hell with it? Think about it. By not building up his name since the Gonzalez fight, Cloud still remains pretty much anonymous and as such brings no financial reward. With no Dawson in the picture, he's now got a significantly easier title fight scheduled vs Clinton Woods, who could be game, but is more likely to be done as a top LHW contender. He'll also be able to make more $$ by beating Woods and some bums than possibly losing to Dawson for the challenger's split.

    What say you, ESB-ites?:think
     
  2. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    27,148
    6
    Jun 30, 2007
    Unless i'm mistaken (and I may be of course), didn't HBO ALSO offer Cloud the opportunity to fight on the undercard of Dawson vs Johnson to lead to a bigger fight?

    I think Cloud is just using everybody to build himself up. Smartly played Cloud.
     
  3. BlueApollo

    BlueApollo Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,827
    3
    May 19, 2007
    Possible, but it's more likely that Cloud barely hit Dawson's radar, and even if he did, Dawson chose to tie himself up for half of this year with the Tarver rematch. I say chose because I can't believe that there was really no way out of that fight. It just cost more than Dawson was willing to fork out, and bottom line, once Hopkins name was taken out of the running, there was no reason to turn Tarver down.

    In any case,the public wants to see Dawson fight at 168, or rematch Johnson. The circumstances favor Cloud, because assuming he's still working hard, he'll be a better fighter with better chances down the road against Dawson.
     
  4. Brickhaus

    Brickhaus Packs the house Full Member

    22,296
    6
    Mar 14, 2007
    I think it's half plan and half dumb luck. From what I've heard, his team isn't exactly a bunch of brain surgeons.
     
  5. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

    38,466
    21
    Apr 7, 2008
    Well the layoff should have not been that big but Dawson vs Tarver II was postponed.
    And HBO did ofer him a fight.
    But no I don't think he did it on purpose,the layoff doesn't help him.
     
  6. RightCross

    RightCross Grandmaster of Boxing Full Member

    10,533
    3
    Aug 3, 2004
    Cloud may be the most untested belt holder..since?

    The question is how does this pay off for him in the long run if he doesnt develop as a fighter on the way up?
     
  7. Brickhaus

    Brickhaus Packs the house Full Member

    22,296
    6
    Mar 14, 2007
    There have been plenty of beltholders who have been very untested. Some of them still turn out to be OK. Koki Kameda and Juan Diaz jump to mind.
     
  8. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    27,148
    6
    Jun 30, 2007
    It doesn't but then again, there's not really much in the LHW division to worry Cloud. Once Dawson leaves, his best challengers are guys like RJJ, Adrian Diaconu, Clinton Woods and those KIND of names. Outside of Diaconu, there's not much to be worried about.
     
  9. doubleplaidinum

    doubleplaidinum Maravilla Full Member

    8,397
    0
    Mar 31, 2008
    it would be pretty sweet to see he and diaconu go at it.
     
  10. 'Ben'

    'Ben' Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,307
    1
    Mar 8, 2009
    Cloud was apperentley very upset that he hasn't managed to stay busy in the last year so who knows?
     
  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

    404,288
    86,376
    Nov 30, 2006
    Even before Gonzalez, Cloud backed out of a fight with RJJ, IIRC. What ultimately became the Hanshaw fight, I believe? :think
     
  12. Bodysnatcher

    Bodysnatcher Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,301
    0
    Oct 27, 2007
  13. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

    34,250
    5,943
    Apr 30, 2006
    I think you're right, too.

    Makes me wonder what the deal is with him (and, as others have pointed out, his team)- they've got an exciting fighter, but he's also a flawed one who could've used another fight or two to work some kinks out in the meantime. There's no legitimate reason for him not to be a more well-known fighter than he is now, and it's ultimately hurting his career earnings. Woods is an easier fight than Chad, but when you're as inexperienced at the higher levels of the division as Cloud is, it still makes it a riskier fight than it should be.
     
  14. onepunch.net

    onepunch.net Active Member Full Member

    1,314
    0
    Mar 7, 2007

    Cloud was offered the co-feature on HBO under Dawson-Johnson, and a guaranteed shot against Dawson next on HBO if both guys won.

    It would appear that Cloud turned down 2 guaranteed 6-figure HBO fights to instead fight Clinton Woods off-tv for 50 cents for the title vacated by Dawson.

    Personally I question the decision.............
     
  15. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

    34,250
    5,943
    Apr 30, 2006
    I applaud you for being diplomatic my friend, because when I look at it the more I'm convinced that Cloud's secret advisor is a Magic 8-ball, although the odds are that the 8-ball wouldn't give him crappy advice that consistently.

    The whole reason I came out with my little conspiracy theory at the top is that's the only scenario I could see that makes any kind of sense....besides shaking it for 5 seconds and reading the prediction, that is.