Teach me about Carlos Ortiz .

Undeniably great, but I don't like watching him. Too.........insular a style, I suppose. Great boxer, good power, excellent resume.

And yes, he was already deposed and 206 years old when Buchanan beat him.

There had been talk of a Duran fight at one point, but it fell through of course.

 

The definition of 'All Rounder'. Ortiz had basically every attribute you could want in a Boxer. Oddly enough, this made him quite hard to watch on film IMO. Nothing seems dynamic, even though he was actually an ATG who beat all types of top fighters. Great Boxing IQ, footwork and positioning, varied and consistent jab, could in fight and box outside, counter, good height, very physically strong for his weight, chin, top timing and could change the pace to suit him.

 

I don’t think he had any real weakness. He was as well rounded and technically sound as they came. Never seemed uncomfortable fighting any manner of opponent, as he could adapt his style to suit whoever was across the ring with small adjustments.

The fact that he looked like a middle aged coal miner is no doubt influencing some opinions about just how workmanlike and featureless he was in the ring.

 

As mentioned, he was very good skillwise, but a chore to watch (IMO). But through his career, he shows all manner of skill vs all manner of opponents. From a technical perspective, most will definitely appreciate his style, if not from an entertainment one. His record is very, very good. ATGs all over the place, from weights equal to, above and below. It's also (IIRC, which may be a big if) arguable that he only lost thrice. The losses to Lane, Loi and Busso were very close or, in the case of Loi III, outright robberies. Loi was a damn good fighter too, Ortiz should be at least 2-1 vs him.

Me and ChrisJS once wrote about the the greatest living fighters, and we had this to say:

Carlos Ortiz was thrown to the wolves as a professional. It just so happened he was the pack leader. The mean, gritty lightweights and junior-welterweights of the late 50s and 60s proved to be the perfect way stamping his authority as his country's best. Yeah, that's right, Carlos Ortiz is the most likely candidate for the king of Puerto Rico. Like I said, Carlos Ortiz was thrown to the wolves. He fought the who's who of a terrifyingly strong division. Despite going 45-4-0-1 in his first 50 fights, with a bit more like he could have gone undefeated. His first four losses were razor thin or controversial affairs but most saw Ortiz as the unlucky one. His fifth loss was anything but controversial. Ismael Laguna put forth the performance of his career and dominated vs. Ortiz. Ortiz set things right in the rematch and rubber match, where he won dominant decisions. He'd suffer another injustice, but this time to Argentine legend and defensive trickster, Nicolino Locche. A draw, not loss, but still not the win it should have been.

After getting the better of the Laguna in the rematch, Ortiz started his second title run. A run worthy of being called great in it's own right, including wins over the likes of Johnny Bizzaro, Ismael Laguna, Flash Elorde and Sugar Ramos twice. He'd lose the title whilst past prime to Carlos Teo Cruz. That was his last spot of success at the highest level. I didn't mean to gloss over the wins that Ortiz had in that original run. The names he beat are outstanding. Duilio Loi, Joe Brown, Battling Torres, Kenny Lane and Flash Elorde, to name a few.

“Ortiz did not possess the explosive and eye-catching power of a Wilfredo Gomez or Felix Trinidad or the mercurial talents of Wilfred Benitez but he was a complete fighter and his record points to him being the greatest fighter ever produced on Puerto Rico's conveyor belt of champions. Ortiz fought in more than ten different countries and faced every style imaginable and that is part of the reason he finds his way so high up on this list. The level of competition he faced was challenging from the start of his career and while he suffered the odd setback here and there, he was masterful in re-matches.”

 

speaking of the loss to cruz it was a split decision that was never ran back. was ortiz not interested in a rematch or was it not as close as the SD would indicate?

 

Carlos Ortiz was one of the most well-rounded fighters there was at 135. He could handle southpaws (Kenny Lane, Flash Elorde, Dave Charnley, Teruo Kosaka) the same way he handled right-handers. He could outbox the bombers (Joe Brown) or meet them toe-to-toe (Len Matthews, Battling Torres). The loss to Buchanan was his last bout at 36. He was on a comeback, bowling over clubfighters, when he was signed to fight newly crowned lightweight champion Roberto Duran in a non-title 10 rounder on the undercard of Ali-Patterson II. Duran pulls out with the flu and Buchanan subs. In his prime though, Ortiz was something.

 

Gonna be honest mate, I haven't seen it. Not that I can remember anyway.

 

I'd love to know if it was out there. There was a bit of controversy over it, but I'd like to put my own eyeballs on it.

 

I’ve got about 15 mins of it. Ortiz got dropped and looked sluggish. I can’t give you a round-by-round but I know there was no controversy from the decision. Ortiz was soundly beaten. I believe he had a terrible experience although never expanded on it. Something to do with managers I believe. Strictly theory but he may have been good poisoned?

 

Ortiz was a very consistent fighter. Very complete and smart. He’s not talked about as one of boxing’s party animals probably due to the above and it doesn’t fit his style but Ortiz was a major drinker. This possibly led to some losses and why he got serious and kicked ass in rematches. He often had a hard time making weight and cut corners in training often.

 

As complete a technician as there's ever been.

 

Poisoned? LOL.

He never did anything remarkable after that. In fact his next fight he won a majority decision over a journeyman and then was paired with straight-up opponents mostly after that before bowing out against Buchanan.

Ortiz had been in a lot of fights and a lot of wars. Turned pro at 19 and was 32. He got old overnight pretty much.

To suggest he was a victim of sabotage with no hint of evidence is grasping.

 

He didn’t suggest it. I know you need your hand held in scenarios where something is merely implied rather than laid out in bullet points, but it was quite clear to the rest of us that he was recalling it from memory. He just wasn’t sure of the specifics, which he also made no attempt to hide.

 

Probably one of the most well rounded and versatile fighters ever. Could box, brawl, counter, punch in combinations, be aggressive or defensive. Power was average but he picked his shots nicely. His style wasn’t at all flashy nor spectacular but he was damn effective at what he did using subtle movements. A very smart fighter who knew how to adjust and perform better in the rematch. He’s fought a variety of all styles and was able to beat them all even when he was at a speed or power disadvantage.
One of the best lightweight fighters and the best fighter to come out of Puerto Rico. Great fighter.