Teach me about Sonny Liston.

I see tyson and foreman improving it

 

Good post. \

I was looking at some of Liston`s fights and comparing them to a young Foreman and Frazier etc. They fought some of the same guys. Joe Frazier, George Foreman and Sonny Liston fought a boxer named Scrap Iron Johnson who was a journeymen with a tough chin and was durable. Scrap Iron went the distance with Foreman and Frazier but when Sonny Liston was in front of him Scrap Iron Johnson got stopped. Just a clue Sonny Liston was probably a genuine bad ass. I`m' not saying he hits harder who knows? I think he was effective because he had boxing skills. He used that jab in the mold of Joe Louis.

When you think about it Liston lost his title to the greatest Heavyweight of All Time. It was the way he lost that hurts his reputation. What heavyweight doesnt lose to Ali in FEB of 64? If Ali was`t around how long would Sonny have been the Champion? Maybe a long time.

 

It’s an astronomical feat.
You can’t just assume because someone is a better finisher that they would. I mean you can, but I don’t think you should take that away from Liston.

 

Williams, Folley, Clay (& Machen?) all complained about "burning eyes" post-fight per different media write-ups over the years.

 

I saw that Scrap-Iron v Liston fight on TV many years ago....it was brutal.

 

Hey fellas, gracias for a really enjoyable discussion re Liston. He was an enigma wrapped up in a conundrum and a guy who not many people knew well at all.

My only knock on Sonny is that in my opinion he was a front runner if you judge him from the Ali and Leotis Martin fights. He wasnt exactly a smart fighter either.

I wish I could remember the name of the old guy I watched an interview with who worked with both Sonny and Joe Frazier.

He was talking about fighting Ali and why Joe did so much better than Liston did. He reckoned Sonny "was a bully at heart " while Frazier was a " bulldog at heart ". I think he did have a point.

That being said I think that a prime Liston circa 1958 would be an extremely bad match up for Joe.

Cheers All.

 

[url]The four who baffled Liston[/url]

and interesting old story from Sports Illustrated circa 1964.

 

I don't taking away from liston anything.just saying that patterson was not durable and was not even a hw so it would not be very hard for big punchers and Great finishers

 

Liston stops Besmanoff (December 9, 1959)
Angie Dundee is in Bemanoff's corner

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That is a very sound post Mac.
Maybe worthy of a thread of its own?

 

When did Williams say that? When did Folley?Williams and Liston were friends for years.

 

^^^ This.

Liston's competition can be picked apart, but at least he destroyed them quickly. IMO, Liston is more skilled than most big punchers, and this includes Foreman. He had a telephone pole for a jab, a bashing right, a lights-out left hook and a head jerking type of uppercut. He could knock a guy out with all four punches! If an opponent could not get out of the way or decided to stand and trade, he wasn't lasting long.

Liston was not only powerful with good technique, but he also had 12+ round stamina and did not slow down in his prime. Liston could scared the daylights out of most of his opponents.

Okay, he wasn't that fast and could cut/swell easily, but only Ali who was at his very best seemed to be able to get out of the way and fire back enough to win rounds. I'm not sure how good his chin was, as it was seldom tested. I do think he was bully type with limited heart when it was tested, but due to his physical gifts few could get to the point where his heart was tested.

A top 15 ATG, without a doubt. If not for Ali, who stops him? Frazier own people did not want to go near Liston. Info's manager said if we see Liston walking down the street, we quickly go the other way. I think he's take Frazier out, much like Foreman did and Ingo would not last more than 4 rounds.

 

The guys name was Milt Baily

 

How do you improve upon a first round knockout?

 

Doing it faster in a more brutal fashion