Following on from Slip's great thread on Deficiencies, which mainly centred around ex-fighters or fighters at the tail end of their career and the deficiencies which prevented them from becoming the complete fighter, and stopped them going further in the game than they possibly could have. This thread is concentrating on today's fighters, those just outside of the elite who have ambitions to one day become part of the elite e.g Berto, Alexander, Dawson, Pascal, Cloud, Bradley, Khan, Juanma, Gamboa etc you get the picture. Can't really call them 'prospects' but fighters on the cusp of something big. What TECHNICAL flaws have you picked up on watching these fighters as they develop, that you feel could prevent them from progressing to this elite level they strive to be part of. I don't wanna hear any "Khan's got a china chin" bollocks. Technical flaws in their technique, style of fighting, video examples would be nice :good Let's leave the Haye-Audley and other bull**** threads to the trolls and casuals and have a good discussion focusing on technical issues and flaws. I'll start off with Andre Berto :bbb Speed, power and heart and athletic ability have gotten Berto this far, but there's only so far this can take him if he wants to start rumbling with the big boys at 147/154. He's a brutal knockout waiting to happen IMO, primarily because of a particularly bad habit he has of trying to hold too much and at inappropriate times. For a short fighter he has no inside game, he really needs to learn how and when to clinch and fight his way on the inside, because he openly grabs from distance on occasion and gets completely square on and he will be chicken feed to anyone with a decent uppercut who can get his hands free on the inside. Examples of this in the Collazo fight from about the 2:40 mark, early in the fight as well which is another bad sign. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e71hL9rgAS4&feature=related[/ame]
Gamboa often jumps around too much and spread his feet way too wide apart when coming in for a combo, which has led to some major balance issues in the past. Fortunately for him, he seems to be correcting the problem; unfortunately, it's also compromised his explosiveness a bit.
I really had high hopes for Paul Williams when he defeated Margarito and emerged to the top of the WW division, and beating some quality names after avenging his loss to Quintana. However, he often gets caught fighting at the wrong range, and as such delivers the wrong punches at the wrong time - especially against Cintron. He's still asking to be hit with hard counters, especially from a southpaw.
Good points on Berto:good Juanma gets too overeager to use his power, rushing in vs Conception got him dropped and we all know about Mtagwa.
Juanma Lopez Has a very compact stance but if he goes chasing a fight and is made to move his feet often falls in with his shots. He loves his man to come on to his short lead right hook, or at times his ''check'' hook. Against Lontchi i started to see his flaws. Lontchi gave his lots and lots and lots of lateral movement and then we saw his temperament come to light. He was spoiled previously against guys who came to fight him at his own game. Juanma didn't like the fact someone wasn't playing the same tune and was very negative. The way he's stanced is a big reason why he struggles with movers. He is so compact that sometimes he cannot get off if you give him constant angles and movement. He doesn't like to pick feet up and cut man down whilst on move. It's also down to his mentality it's something that has caused him issues in recent fights.
Paul Williams is woefully inaccurate. All that work and barely anything lands, and when it does there's nothing behind it. Never really understood the fuss about him.
The note's been struck a thousand times already, but it rings true. There's a lack of quality teachers among trainers today. It's true in both the US and UK (and pretty much all other boxing superpowers, especially in Cuba where they have plenty of talented kids but no foundation for transitioning to the pro game).
While watching Alexander vs Kotelnik i noticed that while Alexander has great speed, he does himself no favours with his often suspect timing. This wasnt really evident against Urango who was slow and lumbering with his head leading in and seemed easy pickings for Devon, but against a decent and quicker operator like Kotelnik it was very easy to to predict that against a Khan or a Bradley, he would be in serious trouble.
Good point :good probably the reason why he suffered a few flash knockdowns earlier on in his career, but has managed to correct this somewhat recently. Still an explosive fighter going off the Mtagwa fight and probably has the speed to get away with anything he wants, maybe the level of competition has increased and therefore he doesn't look as explosive because they don't drop like a sack of **** :think Agreed Beeston, Williams has stopped using his biggest asset which is his freakish height and reach. Spot on Mandanda, exactly what i'm looking for :good And in complete agreement, has that devastating check hook in his locker but won't have much joy landing it against a slick mover who shows him angles. Still think he wins in a shoot-out against Rafa though personally, younger fresher and Rafa has poor punch resistance.
Agree mate, was going to be my next post :good I think the grunt/heavy breathing/noise (whatever the hell it is) Devon makes BEFORE he throws (i've watched videos of him and i'm certain he does it before he throws) will make it easy for anyone with a decent boxing brain to pick his shots and defend easily, just like Kotelnik did.
Juan Diaz and the Peterson brothers all bark whenever they let their hands go as well. :think You rarely hear it among higher-weight fighters...and rarely from anyone other than products of the US amateur system. It must be traceable to some amateur coaches who work specifically with lower-weight young fighters. It does telegraph their offense in a way, and must take at least some small cardiovascular toll (although all of the above have good stamina). I'm not sure what the advantage is supposed to be, other than for the person to keep themselves "in rhythm".
Williams really should be trying to fight like Tommy Hearns, in his last fight he was more like Calzaghe in the early rounds against Hopkins. Good analysis on Lopez lads, though I've got Rafa taking him out :yep It's hard trying to find top fighters with subtle flaws that either aren't obvious or already discovered in the ring by an opponent.
Yeah, great point. Although to an extent both Hatton and Khan make the same noises when they let their hands go. The reason i picked up on Devon in particular is because he does it before he throws, while the others maybe do it as they throw, and that split second difference could be key. Devon has gotten away with it so far against poor competition, and Urango didn't have the nous to capitalise. But Kotelnik was a different ball game and quite easily stifled everything Devon tried to throw. Great post above on the teachers by the way IB, i think some of it has to do with the modern emphasis being more on conditioning to some trainers, obsessing over their fighters hitting a big tyre with a sledgehammer and such, which is great for conditioning but needs to be secondary to getting in the ring and learning how to fight properly.
I suppose so, feel free to use genuine prospects as examples too though mate e.g the olympians, domestic level fighters. might as well open the boundaries, some very good points made so far