Technical maestros with surprisingly anemic pedigrees in the amateur ranks.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Dec 5, 2023.


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  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I'll start with perhaps the poster boy IMO: James Toney.

    Not only is his amateur run shocking for its brevity (just 35 matches) - his KO rate with puffy gloves and headgear was insane. 33 victories, with thirty-two by knockout/RSC , and two defeats. Percentages in the nineties like that are just unheard of. Granted if he fought over a hundred times it may not have remained so high but still. Lots of guys with experience well into triple digits have a dozen or less amateur stoppages. Toney halted thrice as many opponents as did lots of amateur legends and Olympians with as much as 10x his experience.

    He truly was "Lights Out", before morphing into more of a cemented-into-the-floor rotating-turret defensive wizard.

    These counterintuitive facts also have a curious synergism: how, if he was thrashing everyone and barely went the scheduled distance in the little time he spent in the simonpures, did Toney manage to cultivate the near-genius pugilistic IQ that was his professional calling-card?
     
    IntentionalButt, Dec 5, 2023
    IntentionalButt, Dec 5, 2023
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  2. yotam bing

    yotam bing Member Full Member

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    billy conn
     
    yotam bing, Dec 5, 2023
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  3. Unique Way

    Unique Way Active Member Full Member

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    Dwight Muhammad Qawi
     
    Unique Way, Dec 5, 2023
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  4. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Benny Leonard. His amateur career consisted of backyard scraps, practically bootleg boxing matches. Then he turned pro at 15, lost his debut match, and would go on to be considered by the public as arguably the greatest fighter who ever lived for a while.
     
    Ioakeim Tzortzakis, Dec 5, 2023
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  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Lovely fighter, but - technical maestro?

    He's someone I think you would have no trouble convincing a fresh set of eyes of the fact that he learned to fight in the streets. :sisi1
     
    IntentionalButt, Dec 5, 2023
    IntentionalButt, Dec 5, 2023
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  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, I'd assume this would go for most Mexican/Hispanic fighters who simply went straight into the pros. I don't know much of their actual amateur careers, but I know they probably weren't incredibly illustrious:

    Miguel Canto
    Julio Cesar Chavez
    Ruben Olivares
    Chucho Castillo
    Ismael Laguna
    Roberto Duran
     
    George Crowcroft, Dec 5, 2023
    George Crowcroft, Dec 5, 2023
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  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Also, not to poo-poo the thread or anything, but I think this is a topic which would be best served in a more modern setting. A lot of all-time greats prior to the sixties or so forwent an amateur career entirely, and the ones who didn't, didn't stick around long due to poor infrastructure. People got into boxing for money, and well, amateur boxing was really counter productive on that front.

    It'd be really interesting to see which modern fighters have become technically superb without an amateur career, since turning pro is often the death of true boxing training IMO. Guys like Pacquiao comes to mind almost instantly.
     
    George Crowcroft, Dec 5, 2023
    George Crowcroft, Dec 5, 2023
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  8. GoldenHulk

    GoldenHulk Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jerome Artis beat SRL in the amateur ranks I believe, but was nothing more than a journeyman as a pro.
     
    GoldenHulk, Dec 5, 2023
    GoldenHulk, Dec 5, 2023
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  9. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Bernard Hopkins, Dwight Muhammad Qawi Jeff Chandler are the first to come to mind when it comes to having limited amateur background but being very skilled boxers.

    Joey Giardello is also someone with little amateur history who slowly learned his craft as a pro and became a smooth boxing wizard as he gained more experience.
     
    Flo_Raiden, Dec 5, 2023
    Flo_Raiden, Dec 5, 2023
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  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    MAB had a record that is outstanding by anyone's measure, 104-4.
    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/the-marco-antonio-barrera-super-thread.514025/

    Well yes, I kind of figured it was implicit that I wasn't talking about John Sullivan or even Joe Louis era here. :sisi1

    "Modern" in that sense (meaning a time period during which the norm was that most technical learning is acquired in the amateurs, then applied with necessary stylistic modifications in the pros...for the past several, however-many decades - was thinking more forties or fifties when AIBA emerged, but certainly by the sixties) isn't mutually exclusive with "Classic", though. A thread on Hagler vs. Durán would fit best and be slotted in here, not the General Forum. Within this 80 year or so epoch that we're in, Toney is anomalous in being that much of a technically gifted thinking boxer without having reached even close to a hundred amateur contests.
     
    IntentionalButt, Dec 5, 2023
    IntentionalButt, Dec 5, 2023
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  11. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Locche didn’t have a official Amateur career, I think.
     
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Dec 5, 2023
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Dec 5, 2023
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  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Julio Cesar Chavez.... supposedly only had 15 amateur fights. One of the very greatest technical infighters the sport ever saw.
     
    Seamus, Dec 5, 2023
    Seamus, Dec 5, 2023
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  13. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Not a maestro though.
     
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Dec 5, 2023
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Dec 5, 2023
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  14. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    He was a technician who had few peers.

    One doesn't have to be a shoulder rolling, jabbing trackster to be a technician. Just as Dempsey was a masterful technician. Julio was a true maestro. Even Manny, working with a late-stage, depleted Julio was amazed at his technical abilities.
     
    Seamus, Dec 5, 2023
    Seamus, Dec 5, 2023
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  15. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I know, bro, I was just joking around a bit with the word maestro. I'm your chavez fan brother, remember ? I think Chavez was as good as anyone technically speaking.....
     
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Dec 5, 2023
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Dec 5, 2023
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