"Technique"

Slapsie Maxie is a good addition to the conversation here, he seldom hit by the book technique wise, straight wrist and on the knuckles, instead cuffing and catching his opponents with the inside of his gloves and it all counted for a great record and world championship, as Legend said it worked for him. Jack Johnson couldn't slip by the books because he held his right foot at a side angle which didn't let his knee bend and cause his head to slip but he managed in his own unique way. Some fighters like Pancho Gonzales would be totally messed up by trying to convert them to by the book techniques while others like Rocky Marciano would never have hit the heights without that teaching. Archie Moore tried to change the young Cassius Clay into a by the book fighter and lets thank goodness he didn't succeed.

 

Although Charley Goldman actually often told reporters he wouldn't refine Marciano's technique too much in case it ruined his effectiveness.

 

What?!

Ali with a more proper technical defense would have taken less punishment as his speed left him and would probably not have been in such bad condition after finally leaving boxing. Being a huge Ali fan, I think it's a very sad thing that he didn't develop a less youth and speed oriented defense.

 

No, less punishment and less brain damage wouldn't be bad for Ali. To grossly understate it.

Moore wanted to teach Ali a more textbook style just to save him from those tough fights when he slowed down. Ali didn't listen and likely wouldn't have listened to Futch or any other trainer saying the same thing, but Moore was still proven right. Which wasn't really surprising seeing how Moore had such amazing longevity himself.

 

In few cases can the argument in favor of textbook technique be made clearer than in the case of Ali.

1. Even when he was active it was a regular criticism against him that he held his hands low and pulled straight back from punches.
2. The great Eddie Futch successfully devised strategies against him revolving around these flaws.
3. The great Archie Moore tried to teach him more textbook technique, saying he would need it in the long term. He was proven right, with Ali showing signs of brain damage already around 40.

 

I guess it depends on where we draw the line between technique and skill. I think that a more defensively responsible Marciano might have been less able to close the gap against and wear down certain quicker, more skilled opponents.

 

And tactics come in to as well, seizing the opportunity. If you see that your opponent is hurt and off balance and in no position to counter, it can be worth opening yourself up in a way you wouldn't otherwise do in order to close the distance more quickly.

I saw a discussion here about an uppercut Marciano threw almost from the floor. Since his opponent seemed almost doubled over and in no position to capitalize if Rocky missed (which he did), I can't say it's really wrong to try a game ender like that (even though a shorter uppercut that set up further punches might have been a better idea) but it wouldn't be a good idea if the opponent was in position with his full wits about him.

Likewise if your out of range, it can be a good thing to relax and lower your guard a bit. You can see even the most skilled do that. But as soon as they're coming into range the hands come up. To stand in range in front of an opponent with your hands at your waist is, on the other hand, quite perilous. As Nunn for example showed against Toney.

 

I don't remember that. Have never seen it.

But if he did indeed say it, it was from the vantage point of a trainer that never interfered much with a fighter's habits, taking charge of an Olympic gold medalist that had turned pro. If he felt that it was too late for a trainer like him to alter Ali at that stage I can understand that. The more technically oriented Moore obviously didn't feel that way. And Gil Clancy taught Ali the shoulder roll during the short time he trained him ahead of the Ellis fight, so he obviously didn't think that Ali couldn't be taught new things. But Dundee just wasn't that kind of a trainer, and that's why Ali wanted him to start with.

But if Ali had adopted a more textbook technical style, there's no doubt that he'd taken less punishment and probably lost fewer fights. There just isn't a reasonable argument there. Because, just how did a low right hand serve him against hookers like Cooper and Frazier? How did pulling straight back help him against Norton, when a specific strategy had been devised to punish him for doing just that - a tactic that obviously worked?

If he was a lost cause when he turned pro (something Moore obviously didn't believe) or not, is really a separate discussion.

 

How was Moore not proven right when Ali took just the kind of punishment that textbook technique is adopted to prevent? How would textbook technique hurt Ali? Moore and Futch obviously thought it only would be a benefit, were they wrong? Bert Sugar, that you have quoted as an authority in other instances, also did.

 

In regard to his later years you maybe right after thinking over this, however for the prime Ali considered often the greatest of heavyweights changing the style that fitted him perfectly at his zenith would have been a foolish thing to do.

 

There is no RIGHT way to box only a way you know how to win that suits your abilities and takes advantage of opponets weakness( thats on champion level) . However If you lack some things when an opponent matches what you are weak in and get spoiled in not advancing or improving.....well......................................


its always good to know technique on all punches or even others styles so you understand what you could face. Many techniques you may not use/styles but knowing them will help to counter them. for instance southpaw fighting, fighting off a back foot, fighting without a jab...etc....the better fighter will adapt usually bc you could adjust easier or have a idea what to do..

Always fight to your strengths even if it compromises technical aspects that wont work for you,it might win you the fight through outmatching your opponent bc its who implements their style who wins and sometime it really just who wants to win more.

 

Most of the time his speed and reflexes covered it up in his prime, but even then he had scares against Jones and Cooper.