Teddy Atlas & Jack Newfield tear a strip off Mike Tyson after losing to Holyfield....

Post-Zaire Foreman is more comparable to a post-Douglas Tyson though. Lyle would certainly test him, especially if it were Tyson's first fight coming back from that loss. Getting hit with the right hand bombs that Lyle landed on Foreman would bring back some undesired memories for Tyson, and I'm not sure if he would rally to score a stoppage win if he were to suffer two knockdowns like Foreman did.

Sure he must have had character, and the success he had greatly boosted his confidence but he also had obvious insecurities as well, as most people do. But seemingly fearless fighters like Holyfield and not to mention Ali would always be difficult for him to deal with.

 

I don't like the word 'hypocrite', men are naturally hypocrites, just some more than others. Atlas talks allot of sense, but theres negativity and jealousy too. Accepting money to train someone isn't hypocracy and neither is changing your opinion.

Whats the real story with Atlas's neice or whoever she was, I hear there have been various versions of the story

 

Tyson was never as easy to hit as Big George though and fought many men of the quality of Lyle. We could say 'how would Tyson be able to take the punnishment Bowe took from Golota?' Well he didn't have too because he was a better boxer. Tyson has been hurt and comeback in numerous times but his balance was good enough for him not to go down. For instance Bruno hurt him hard

 

is jack newfield still alive?

 

He was never exactly easy to hit but he wasn't hard to find either post-Douglas.

Against Bruno it was just one punch, and Bruno's follow-up was terrible, as usual of him.

Lyle gets all kinds of criticism thrown at him nowadays, supposedly couldn't punch, box or take a punch (in my opinion he could do all three), but these were some brutal shots he was hitting Foreman with:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgFABFKMo-E[/ame]

3:40

He died around five years ago I believe.

 

Tyson showed a lot of balls and toughness against Douglas who he knocked down in the 8th. Atlas says Douglas got up and Tyson went into a shell. BS, the bell rang. Tyson came out steaming in the 9th, but was exhausted and was involved in one of the better exchanges of the fight against the ropes.
He also walked through a **** storm against Ruddock, twice. You dont have a lack of character if you can do that. His will to win was what was clearly not the same, and thats not something you can fight through adversity without having. Tyson wanted out against Holyfield, Lewis he wanted no part of, Williams and McBride. His will to win is what clearly started to disappear, and it was exposed by Holyfield. As Newfield said, Tyson was looking for a way out of the fight after the 5 or 6 and I agree with that.

 

yes hes dead

 

Lyle has fast hands and good power, but as a boxer he was levels below Tyson, thats no disrespect to him. Tyson has a great defense and boxing skill, Foreman didn't. Thats partly why we have the discussion 'did Tyson ever have heart' because his defense and skills were so good he rarely got hit against the best opposition. Lyle may be able to punch but he isn't landing on Tyson and Tyson's landing on him at will pretty much.

 

very enjoyable discussion. Atlas is quite obviously bitter but he does a lot talk sense, seems an intelligent guy.

 

I'm not saying I rate Lyle along with Tyson as a fighter, it's just that Tyson never showed he could overcome the type of adversity Foreman was in. Lyle could drag latter day Tyson into that type of fight, keep in mind that post-Zaire Foreman who hadn't fought in over a year wasn't exactly in the best mental/physical state either.

Thus I don't quite agree with the comparisons between Foreman and Tyson, as Foreman did show that he could overcome hard knockdowns and continual punishment only to come back and win the fight.

 

When did this happen?

 

When he left King.

 

What happened, why didn't he? Was he interviewed for the job?

 

I never rated Tyson's fighting temperament, all the way back in '87 you could spot the frustration and cracks appearing in him when things didn't go quite his way.
And his highly emotional nature is well-documented, going back all the way through the Cus D'amato days.

Fighters like Holyfield had ice running through their veins when under pressure. Their confidence and resolve is undentable.
Ali fought with passion and spirit and the self-belief was always there. Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano.

Tyson just didn't match up. It's wrong to say he had no heart, it's inaccurate to say he was strictly a front-runner. But he had more of those negative aspects in his make-up than the greats had, and his fiery emotion-fuelled style of fighting could implode back on him.
The kid always had demons, had doubts.
He was insecure.

 

Teddy Atlas was 100% correct about Tyson's silent contracts, and how he was actively passive in clinches, did a lot of holding himself.


The Smith fight was a great example.
That fight Tyson was very nervous and very easily frustrated. Luckily Smith became intimidated and wanted to hold a lot. Tyson was happy to hug him with one arm, meanwhile Smith hugs him back with two arms.
Apparently Tyson cried his eyes out afterwards in the dressing room, so relieved that the fight was over.