Teddy Atlas says Tyson isn’t close to being an All Time Great [2017]

Holyfield obviously was. The evidence against Tyson is much weaker.

 

He was 217 against Bowe three years before. I see no reason to believe he was juicing less then, if he was juicing which is quite likely.

 

Stop with the “if” BS. I’m sure he was juicing for his big fights from the time his weight went up and his hair (not) coincidentally fell out to the time he looked like a bull against Mike Tyson when he was supposed to be fading out. I wouldn’t know the specific metabolite composition of his urine for any others fights.

 

You mean from the time he went from 190+ to 210 in a couple of years? I e before his hair fell out. I think it's very likely, especially with what we know from the Evan Fields thing, but I'm not going to say I'm absolutely certain about things I'm not absolutely certain about.

 

I guess you think it could’ve been Evan then.

 

I tend to agree with this sentiment. At the time of their initial scheduled fight in November 1991, Holyfield hadn't yet developed into the kind of fighter that was ready for Tyson. I think the Holyfield from the Mercer fight would have been a stern challenge.

 

He said that Jesus called him to preach and told him to quit boxing. While it sounds far fetched, I grew up in Pentecostal Churches were people thought that Jesus really spoke to them and things like that. If you're used to that kind of thing, it isn't as unusual.

 

The irony is that had Tyson struggled, it may have came across as a better win than the blowout it was.

 

The Holyfield who won the title vs. Douglas (who layed down)
Vs. Foreman
Vs Cooper
He was still fighting like a smaller man. He was not fighting like a heavyweight yet.

 

I buy the mental toughness of Holyfield is a big hurdle for Tyson but only if Evander can make it matter. Like taking him into deep water.
Physically Evander has no advantage. Tyson remember had great speed in his prime and still good quickness pre prison.

 

I am a witness. Jesus was at my house that day fixing my furnace. He made no calls.

 

Yeah, nobody’s going to convince me that the Holyfield who almost didn’t make it out of the third round against Bert Cooper “had Tyson’s number.”He would have been an extremely formidable opponent but I would have favored Tyson.

 

All I know is both Holy and Mike were past their primes when they fought and Mike got his ass beat twice. And this was after Holy had been shatteringly ko'd by Bowe.

Perhaps the early Holy couldn't have done it. Doesn't change the fact that Mike got whupped by a fighter four years older (and after the Bowe fights, just as road-travelled) than him more than convincingly.

I'm a much bigger fan of Mike since I've been on this forum, you folks have helped me there. But facts are facts.

I still think Mike's style would have led to a 1991 Holy victory within 12 (though with deference to others' opinions on this point I'm leaning toward a decision).

And yeah, I do think Holy had his number...two convincing beatings prove that. Holy had Mike's number down so much Mike just decided to pull a Golota and quit in a shitty way in the second fight.

No offense to fans of Mike (of which I consider myself one).

 

He had stopped everyone he fought at HW, bar the unstoppable Old George. But he hurt comeback George way worse than anyone else could, even power punchers like Morrison and Briggs. How is that "not fighting lika heavyweight"?

At one of his lowest weights at HW, 205 lbs, he gave the 235 lbs Bowe, and probably best inside fighter for his size ever, a good go in the trenches. Conversely he didn't last 8 rds against Bowe a year before Tyson and didn't impress anyone when fighting Czyz. There were no signs of any development whatsoever compared to his early 90's prime before he faced Mike. So there is no previous fight that suggests that he fought Mike in a way he couldn't have before, but there is plenty of evidence in his two losses in the four fight leading up to Tyson that Holy had lost a lot in terms of stamina, speed and workrate. In fact, he hadn't looked good in a fight since his win over Bowe three years before.

So in the end, the only viable argument you are left with is that he put on 5 lbs of muscle. And since Mike had done the same, even that argument rings hollow. In 1996, it was a 222 lbs Mike against a 215 lbs Holy - in 1991 it would have been a 217 lbs Mike against a 210 lbs Holy.

There is really nothing we know that suggests that Holy was better prepared for Tyson in 1996 than in 1991. In fact, most things point in the other direction.

 

That’s a lie. Jesus was a carpenter, he ain’t fixing no furnace.