Teddy Atlas says Tyson isn’t close to being an All Time Great [2017]

Kevin, your indeed one of the best posters around here bringing up logic and common sense.

So many guys in here come up with the hundreds and thousands parotted wisdoms and sell them like the truth was written in stone. "Make america great again" * 100000-iterated and I´ll persue whatever bull**** is gonna follow. Simplicity is gold....

Human beings unique feature is to use their OWN mind!

"Holyfield had Tysons number" is one of these "textbook bollocks", like "Tyson vs. whatever Holmes KO4" as well.

There is no simplicity in whatever evaluation you have to make, at least by maximising its value.

If the guy who wasn´t even pre prison a defensively focused fighter anymore, what can we conclude for an even more rusty post prison version of that fighter regarding that parameter?? A: The prime guy will most likely not fall in 12, if the two steps expired version made in 11 rounds out of 12. Now thats pretty much logic, if

a) we see Evander hanging in with a prime Lewis for 24, close to winning the 2nd
b) becoming more seasoned with that bulked body @ HW
c) getting more heavy handed, even hurting Ray Mercer a little, compared to a qucker version needing tons of rounds to pummle Alex Steward away.

Do you honestly see that slow fibre twitching Tua-like Tyson giving the same show as the energetic peaked fellow? Young Holyfield going to beat him by brawling to vistory?

https://viewsync.net/watch?v=CfV8oYVYa_k&t=225&v=b__ZydZjJs4&t=257&mode=solo

What we rly need is a software gathering the movement of a fighter compared to a person simply moving more calm. There would be tremendous difference regarding this for alot of "prime vs. chilled" ATG comparisons.

 

He was better prepared because of his quality of opposition. 3 competitive fights with Bowe, a close fight with Moorer and one with Ray Mercer. Tyson on the other hand was rusty coming off a prison sentence with inadequate opposition to prepare him for the Holyfield who evidently had more left in the tank that most observers would have predicted.

They initially wanted Foreman as a comeback fight but decided against it since Tyson's prison sentence might have alienated him with some fans. So instead they needed an opponent who everyone would rally behind Tyson. Foreman was likable and was the lineal Heavyweight Champion, fresh of the biggest win his of his second career. They didn't want the fans to be divided so they chose McNeeley. He was an unknown with a good record on paper. Then Mathis where he missed so many punches, one was almost embarrassed for him. Bruno and Seldon he was certainly improved but they offered very little resistance and never forced him to go rounds. In a way it would have been better if McCall beat Bruno because he would have helped shake the ring rust off Tyson.

Holyfield was better prepared because he was busier, he was sharper, bulkier, hit harder and took a punch alot better. In 1991, Tyson was just as sharp and just as busy. And he had the speed advantage that he lost when he came out of prison and was bulkier.

 

Holy had been busy being in wars and battling disease since 1991. For me it's clear as day that he lost more speed between 1991 and 1996 than Tyson did. Seemed pretty clear to all those who had Tyson as a huge favourite as well.

Everyone who thought before the fight that Holy had a better chance than he would have had in 1991 raise a hand! (Mine stays down)

 

Even if that was true, which of those fighters style was able to adapt to loosing tempo?
What can we conclude from Holyfield beating Moorer again, nearly beating LL by the age Tyson looked like a frozen mummy? Rumbling for more years with Byrd and Ruiz?

Have you seen the sync-vid from my post before? DID Holyfield need more speed in there?
From what I see, he quickly saw that there was no need to get much of Tysons respect (with no real pressure coming from Tyson anyway), stayed in reactive mode to just counter what was coming there. Tyson did absolutely nothing close range, getting manhandled in the clinches too.
Do you see a quicker, lighter, less stronger, more brawl happy Evander doing much better?

 

Oh dear.

 

Yes, speed (especially of reflexes in a fight fought in the trenches), workrate and stamina will always help you. And let's not get carried away with the increase in strength here. We're talking 5 lbs. As much as Tyson put on between 1991 and 1996.

 

Did I struck a nerve?
I´m sry.

 

I was just being silly, my friend.

 

If you're not here for the fairy tales then what are you here for??

 

Funny how people use the Bert Cooper fight as any sort of reasoned indication that Holyfield would lose to Tyson in 1991.
It was pretty much obvious from the opening bell against Bert that Holyfield was standing more flat-footed than usual, using almost zero lateral movement and was pressing forward to stop Cooper, who was regarded as another blown-up cruiser and a prospect-turned-journeyman with a record for quitting. You could say Holyfield underestimated Cooper. I mean, he showed Adilson Rodrigues more respect than he did Cooper, visibly.
It is insane to imagine Holyfield approaching a Tyson fight ever in the same manner.

But, hey, if it makes people feel better, go ahead and imagine.

 

Sonny Liston had the deadliest left hand in the world in 1963.
Cassius Clay was almost knocked out by Henry Cooper, a fair left-hooker but not on Liston's level.
But then Liston couldn't really put much of a dent in young Clay in his very next fight.

 

+100, I'm cracking up!!!

Post of the day...I've got to use that quote somewhere.