Tell me about the history of PEDs in boxing

What we know is that steroids started to come into sports in the western world in the 1960's (50's in the then Soviet Union). As for boxing there's a journeyman who has admitted to taking them in the 1970's and later on Tommy Morrison admitted to taking them. Testing didn't really start until the last 25 years or so ago, during which time a number of fighters have tested positive. Roy Jones, Tyson Fury and Canelo are probably the most famous fighters to test positive.

 

You're wrong on the taller part. Like I've said before, the difference is in epigenetics not classic natural selection. If you grow up with excess nutrient dense food (including prenatal environment which is hormonally different when a mom has plenty of food) and avoid life threatening illnesses, changes in gene expression will make you taller and epigenetic changes are generally heritable. This is why humans generally didn't regain paleolithic height (pre-agriculture) until the 20th century.

 

You may be correct, this is a more sophisticated understanding than most even broach.
Although I would not call it an "excess" of nutrients, it really is just adequate or near ideal.
While calories are most important, & this also so often overlaps with more bad food-too much sugar, refined floor, non-whole/processed foods, bad (saturated/trans) fats...

So we are less healthy with more lifestyle diseases such as diabetes & heart problems & certain kinks of cancer, even while being taller.

However I do not know for sure if you are correct, or more likely, to what extent.
For example the point about how (I would say dramatically even during most of the industrial age) we were smaller could be due to epigenetics...
But IF that was the case or mainly so, when a more plentiful diet is introduced, it would take generations for the heights to reach current levels.

But classically you take an immigrant from an impoverished area whose avergae height is low, their same sex offspring tends to TOWER over them.
It seems likely that while epigentics DOES often operate-like say progeny of the Irish potato famine tend to have genes for hoarding calories, essentially obesity, literally turned on...

With just reaching one's genetic potential, at least most of this is accomplished just by getting enough calories & macronutrients during the years where growth is possible.
Often even growth can be made up-to a point-some of these relatively tall/average western heights kids do not come over until small children.

 

At risk of derailing this thread...
Life expectancy is still higher now despite obesity. Obesity is not inevitable (lifestyle can prevent it) and is far more common in populations that lack the right metabolic programming, such as many groups of Native Americans who are still playing catch up in terms of epigenetic change needed to tolerate standard American diet.

I think height has taken generations to reach current levels since industrialization,

Regarding children of immigrants, the part about them being way taller is probably only a minority of them. I'd predict second and third generation to be even taller/bigger on average.

Epigenetics definitely influences growth and a lot of other parts of human development. The field is still basically in its infancy though, so it's impossible to say how much.

 

Sure life expectancy is in general higher but obesity-& the pandemic-brings it down.
And I agreed with epigentic changes effecting obesity-although genetic slection is also possible if the famines are intense enough.

However I am saying that nutrition has improved for generations-Occam's Razor says we need evidence that height increases were not just from better diets.
And since the increases have been merely creeping up at best for decades-& stablized in many places like the U.S.-I have no reason to believe that marginally traller people were not just a product of a slightly better plenitude of diet.

I think it is clear-but I would have to look up the statistics-that kids of short immigrants tend to be much taller than their parents.
Epigenetics is real, however I do not see the evidence that it operates specifically in limiting height when nutrients are available.
It also makes sense that evolution would horde calories for future generations, since that will enable more people to survive in the case of future scarcity.

Also while some populations tend to be fatter, many places like America are MUCH heavier than a few decades ago.
The average man & woman are now just 1/5th of a pound short of an even 200 & 171 lbs. respectively.
On average these are not muscular people; to just be not overweight, the average male should be @ 30 lbs. lighter, woman, 40 lbs.!
So especially relative to lean body mass, that is even fatter for females, likely due to estrogenic effects of pollution, just like I was amazed that (I believe global) sperm count are down by MORE than half from 1973-2022!

So diet, inactivity, chemicals...Have made

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Genetics letting folks reach their potential height when there is enough good food also makes sense.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4208652/

Have at it.

 

It really gained prominence lately when Floyd Mayweather accused Pacquiao of PED abuse in order to misdirect attention of his own PED abuse.
Totally calculated. That's why he's a bit of a worm, and exactly why anybody with more than the brain cell of a worm completely disdains him.

 

This is categorically the truth. It’s all the proof anyone should need to conclude what the limits of training and diet alone actually were for bigger men in the sport of boxing before steroids and PEDs came into widespread use.

Bingo! These guys all needed to be artificially enhanced to reach a comparative physical boxing potential to smaller men.

 

Except he's one of the first guys to bring in extended testing and Pacquiao refused to do it.

 

Fighters in the pre-steroid era, especially the little guys, had seemingly limitless stamina. Serious question, why would they need steroids now to increase stamina?

 

Doesn't the NBA kind of prove some of that wrong? Basketball always had extremely coordinated and well-conditioned big men.

 

Whether they need to is subjective. At the risk of stating the obvious, boxers that take PEDs designed to improve stamina, do so with the aim that they will improve their stamina.

That doesn't mean they don't/can't have excellent stamina without them.

 

Different sport. Nobody was hitting those ball “players” upside the head. This is Fighting not playing.

lots of athletes can coordinate themselves smoothly and energetically in front of a mirror. But the anxiety and physical demands of avoiding, enduring and subjecting actual physical Punishment commands more energy dexterity and focus. It’s a different thing entirely.

Many guys look wonderful shadow boxing. It’s what happens After the bell has rung that counts. Compromising for Depth perception. Timing under the threat of pain. Reaction and response under pressure. Wind. Too many factors unique to combat to make comparisons with mere sports or games.