Tell me about the history of PEDs in boxing

Actual last example (that my computer just deleted so i'll have to type out again). My Tyson A vs Tyson B scale is off, which is true, I just used that scaling so I could put that Tyson is over 9000 haha, but i'll give you a scale which isn't metaphorical, 100% factual. This actually happened. I'm going to definitively 100% prove to you that you don't truly understand the power of PED's, and good evidence to suggest you underestimate their use.

Lets take Barry Bonds X, who doesn't use drugs, Barry Bonds B2, before 2000 and Barry Bonds A2, after 2000.

In 1999, Barry Bonds B2 at 34 years old had been on a 4 year long downwards trajectory and hit a 4 year low 34 homeruns. After he starting taking The Clear and The Cream in 2000, BBB2 transforms into BBA2 and he goes from hitting 49 homeruns the year after, to in 2001 hitting 73 homeruns. D'you know how large of an improvement this is?

114%

Holy f****** s*** balls. 114% god damn percent. That's absolutely ridiculous. This is not "a small advantage making a significant difference" my man, this is earth shattering stuff. The important part though?

As stated earlier, people think that Barry Bonds B2 was at that point in his career not taking PEDs, but we know this is false. This 114% improvement in homers between two literally identical athletes in BBB2 and BBA2 was not the difference between not taking PEDs and taking PEDs, it was the difference between taking PEDs and taking even more PEDs. What on earth do you imagine the difference between a Barry Bonds that took PED's and a Barry Bonds that DIDN'T take PED's would be, if two PED using Barry's represented a difference of 114%? A 200% or 300% increase in homeruns between Barry Bonds A2 and Barry Bonds X doesn't seem unreasonable now does it. Furthermore, Barry scored 34 homeruns in 1999. The 39 homerun difference between 1999 and 2001 is bigger than the difference between 1999 Barry Bonds and scoring -5 home-runs lol. Which is to say, most people to this day think that "natural" Barry Bonds was capable of still being a high level baseball player at age 34, in reality natural Barry Bonds likely wasn't even good enough to be in the damn leauge. This is the difference we're talking about. It's not at all unlikely that a natural Barry Bonds could only hit 10 home runs, meaning that a 6x increase in home run hitting ability would not be out of the question.

For Steve Kerr, him being on PED's vs not being on them was the difference being a bench player in the NBA and - i'm not exaggerating - him not even being able to get out of bed in the morning. His PED use facilitated the difference between a man who was so F'd up, injured and sore that he was less athletic than the average person and struggled to get out of bed, to one of the best 450 basketball players on the planet. Insane. Utterly insane. This was in the 90's as well, and PED's have gotten way better.

That's my evidence to prove you vastly, vastly underestimate the difference good training, nutrition and even good genetics can make. The best genetics in human history + PEDs <<<<<<< the best genetics on the planet + even more PEDs. I can now confidently say that anyone who hits 80 home runs, is by definition, on PEDs, as it would be improbable to the point of impossibility for this to be the case. It is now axiomatic, that anyone who hits 80 homer-runs is on PED's. Anything else wouldn't be "basic evidence", but additional evidence.

In regards to prevalence though, fellow PED user Jose Canseco said that about 85% of the MLB players took performance enhancing drugs, and this was BEFORE the clear and the cream were even on the market. He then went on to name several players who he himself claimed to have taken PED's. These players went on to deny they used anything, AND say that Canesco was wrong about his drug estimates.

Fans said "Why would you trust the words of a drug cheat? What does he know. He's just saying that so he feels better about him cheating himself. You can't just say th-" que several of the people he named obviously being found to have linked to PED's, lied about taking them and even lied in court. Who would have known, the person who literally injected some of his teammates with PED's, and who the REST of his teammates knew were taking, knows things about who and how many people take PED's. That, and some people who were linked to PED's but never officially caught, were caught cheating in other ways like Albert Belle who used a corked bat. Shows he had no practical or ethical concerns about cheating. Babe Ruth also used a corked bat btw...

In regards to the NBA, like I said HGH use was so common at the time that the then president of the players association in Chris Paul just asked the commissioner to take it off the banned substances list, cuz everyone was openly using it and it didn't make sense to tip toe around it. It wasn't this Voldemort like "shall not be named" hush hush thing that the media likes to pretend nobody in the league talks to eachother about, of course they do.

What you'd now have to convince me of, is that top level MLB players, Sprinters, Cyclists and NBA players are for some sociological reason, more likely to cheat in sports than other top level athletes. They're not. Of course they're not. This isn't a sports specific thing, nor a country specific thing. Hell 19 of the 24 teams in the UNDER 17 Fifa World Cup tested positive for higher doses of clenbuterol than Canelo did (and their excuse was bogus). Now prove to me that top MLB players, Spinters, Cyclists, NBA players and under 17 football players are more likely to cheat than other athletes. They're not. It's pathological. The vast majority of top athletes will do anything to gain small advantages, let alone huge advantages, hence, most use PED's.

12% of people in the UK have asthma. 63% of Liverpool FC has asthma, as does 70% of the British Swimming squad. A lot of the England Football squad also had asthma, AND did asthma tests just before a world cup. Hmm, the most well conditioned athletes on the planet, all have a condition that DE-SELECTS them from being high level endurance athletes. Is it because we literally know for a fact, because former coaches and trainers have told us, that they undergo conditioning in order to be able to lie about having asthma, therefore allowing the use of asthma drugs with performing enhancing effects like ß2-agonist, salbutamol and triamcinolone, who can then plausibly deny the intentional use PED's if caught and can just say "it's from a tainted asthma supplement / it's for my asthma"

Nah, probably just a coincidence that the athletes with some of the best cardiovascular conditioning on the planet have Asthma at 425%-483% of the national average. Nothing to see here. Definitely not suspicious that athletes who were in their 30's with no previous records of asthma were being tested for it for the first time ever just before world cups, and just so happened to find out they were asthmatic in time for them. (Yes I know exercised induced asthma is a thing in case anyone brings that up, this isn't that).

You have UFC fighters openly saying on mic that everyone is on steroids, and in interviews, without a shred of emotion or anger "oh yeah most teams use a lot of PED's... except for ours of course."

How many instances that indicate casual, widespread and pathological use of PED's in sports do we need to see before my sentiment "The incredibly vast majority of top level athletes us PED's" stops being, in your mind, unfounded, irrational or overly accusatory and without evidence? I'd say we're already at that point.

Said i'd make my reply short and then split it up into 3 separate comments, damn.

But yeah, in conclusion, we know for a scientific fact that PEDs are tremendously effective, we know for a scientific fact that top level sports selects for people that are pathologically predisposed to use PED's (risk takers, ultra competitive, obsessive, etc) we know for a fact that several sports have extremely lax drug testing, in some cases ZERO drug testing, and extremely lenient punishments, we know for a fact that even in sports with harsh punishments like sprinting, on account of the aforementioned psychological profile of top level athletes, these risks don't do s*** to stop literally, LITERALLY every single person from #1-#8 from all taking drugs, and we know for a fact that anyone who's even in orbit of these PED'd performances are themselves self evidently taking PEDs.

Therefore, my belief that there is widespread systemic doping in sports and that I don't need thousands of individual pieces of evidence for every single person I collectively accuse to claim that top level athletes in sports are taking PEDs, is in my opinion, extremely rational and incredibly well supported, to the point that your viewpoint despite being reasonable, is unscientific and relatively unsupported compared to mine.

 

Fascinating stuff that Hotep, a great read.

 

Here's an old picture of Ali back from his fighting pomp with one of his friends who just happenes to be the most succesful steroid user of all time.

https://scontent.fbhd1-2.fna.fbcdn....2tFuMsYTITtGinpkQhqeNRwge-ThVfpNQ&oe=647AE8BF

This same fella actually had a job as a personal trainer prior. But those with rose tainted glasses are to have us believe at no point did they talk about the massive benefits of 'roiding for a pro boxer even though it was perfectly legal to do so? People need to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

A celebrity in a photo with another celeb.

Stop the press!!!!

 

I’ve never been tested for asthma in my life that I’m aware of. The higher incidence could correspond to increased testing. Food for thought. A source would also be nice.

 

The wheezing asthmatic look.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11139/111390015/8215374-shannonbriggs.jpg

 

This might have already been mentioned earlier in the thread, but there are periods of time in the last few years when about half of the Ring top 10 heavyweights have been caught with PEDs before. And that's the ones who were caught.

 

On the 20% strength boost issue: that's close to the difference in push press performance between a 44 year old Joe Frazier with an arm injury, and Mike "Hercules" Weaver in his prime.*

* Per the Superstars competition scores.

 

That's my buddy speaking. Ha Ha.

 

Source about which claim(s) specifically, the higher incidence of asthma in elite athletes?

 

Oh Oh !

 

I’m not going to dissect your whole post.

Basically, you’re speculating about individual cases, which doesn’t hold up to scrutiny because you’re allowed to cherry-pick successful athletes and ignore the others.

You’re then claiming that certain groups of athletes have a much higher rate of asthma than the general population. The issue there is that whatever swim team has the asthmatics will have every member undergoing asthma testing. You can also select the specific team with the highest rate of asthmatics to support your point (at surface level).

On the other hand, if 10/10 members of a swim team undergo asthma testing and 3 come back asthmatic compared to 2/10 of the general population BUT only 4 out of every 10 in the general population get tested, the rate is much higher in the general population.

A source would obv be nice to see where these stats are appearing from and what they actually mean.

 

In regards to individual cases, if that's a comment about everything I posted then I disagree, I just can't be bothered to link every single time an entire country has been found to have had a state sponsored doping programs / every massive drug scandal in major professional sports that implicates dozens of people / every time a professional athlete says that everyone in their sport is on PED's, and then go through the logical gymnastics to explain away crazy performances. Not even sure how it'd be feasible to, without inferrence, comment on the prevalence of PED's in sports. They're literally hundreds of thousands of athletes, who we know on account of the athletes that have been caught can go to extreme lengths to hide this information. And again, a lot of my claims are inferred from biology. I don't need to individually drug test everyone who deadlifts 1000lbs to know they're on PEDs. Everyone has an idea in their head of what is and isn't natural, just turns out that most of those ideas are heavily warped and way less grounded than mine / others lol, I.E, "Natural" Barry Bonds, or Flojo's PB being "obviously" enhanced and Bolt's PB not arousing suspicion.

In regards to your earlier comment about clenbuterol, yeah I made a mistake on that one, I was confusing it with nandrolone! Thanks for pointing that out, will edit it now. I got Canelo and Fury mixed up. It's biologically possible that Canelo tested positive for clenbuterol by eating tainted meat, it's biologically impossible for Fury to have tested positive for nandrolone by eating tainted boar. It has to be injected.

Also this entire time I thought your profile picture was of a hedgehog, just now realized it's someones hairline lol.

Anyways:
Alberto Salazar using asthma and asthma medication as a means to dope his athletes - https://www.propublica.org/article/elite-runner-had-qualms-alberto-salazar-asthma-drug-performance

Excercise and asthma: an overview - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4653278/

"Elite athletes also have an increased risk for EIA/EIB, especially those that participate in endurance sports such as swimming, running, and cycling and in winter sports".

"Despite this increased prevalence, it is reassuring that many asthmatic elite athletes with optimal asthma treatment are able to participate on an equal level with their peers in the Olympic Games and in other top level international competitions. Fitch even described that asthmatic athletes even succeeded to win more medals than other athletes".

"Exercise-induced bronchospasm is more common in elite athletes than amateur athletes or people who do not exercise. The prevalence of EIB is 7% to 10% of the general population and 20% to 50% of elite athletes, especially those engaged in high-intensity aerobic exercise".

Self-reported asthma and allergies in top athletes compared to the general population - results of the German part of the GA2LEN-Olympic study 2008 - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004879/
"Athletes reported significantly more doctors' diagnosed asthma (17% vs. 7%), more current use of asthma medication (10% vs. 4%) and allergic rhinitis (25% vs. 17%) compared to the general population".

"Compared to the general population, an increased risk of asthma diagnosis and treatment was shown for athletes involved in endurance sports. This might be due to a better medical surveillance and treatment of these athletes".


Asthma prevalence in Olympic summer athletes and the general population: An analysis of three European countries - https://www.resmedjournal.com/article/S0954-6111(15)00156-0/pdf
"Results: Athletes in the highest endurance category had increased risk of doctor-diagnosed asthma, asthma symptoms and asthma symptoms or medication use (OR 3.5; CI 1.8e6.7) compared to the general population".

70% of top UK swimmers and third of Team Sky cyclists suffer from some form of condition, especially exercise-induced asthma - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/28/asthma-elite-athletes-study-swimmers-cyclist-eid.

"John Dickinson from Kent University, a world expert on asthma in sport, who has tested all 33 UK-based swimmers from the British Swimming squad found 70% have some form of asthma. A similar test on the cyclists from Team Sky revealed about a third are prone to a wheeze, against a national asthma rate of about 8% to 10%." Can't find the original study to link unfortunately.

Exercise-induced Asthma affects 28 per cent of elite footballers, health study finds - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/hea...-footballers-health-study-finds-a3713791.html

 

Am trying to edit my comments but I can't for some reason, maybe I broke a posting rule / pissed off a mod somehow, can only delete them and repost them, so i'll repost this edited comment here;

Also, fun fact; a drug like nandrolone that Fury was popped for isn't orally active. As in, if I was to eat 500g of nandrolone and then do a drug test, it wouldn't come up in a drug test. So anytime any athlete has ever said they got popped for nandrolone due to tainted meat or tainted supplements, we know they're blatantly lying lol. Again, this is basic biochemistry. If I didn't mention that someone could wax lyrical about how "I can't prove Fury knowingly took PED's" when it's just lack of knowledge of the science on their part, I can in fact do that very easily.

 

The pork hypothesis appears to check out.

https://www.verifythis.com/amp/arti...lone/536-85b701d1-9071-4de7-a7a9-4863998fa95e