Tell me Boxing fans. Do/did you rate Calzaghe and Kessler as stay at home fighters?

bailey,

We've covered most of this before.

I'm not going to compare careers between a 29 year old active fighter, with one who retired 5 years ago at 36.

It's pointless.

Mitchell, Sheika and Brewer were never classed as top fighters.

Ottke doesn't have a fantastic resume. Once again, stats don't allow for circumstances. Forget the zero, his resume is nothing special. Going undefeated in Germany, in a weak division isn't in anyway fantastic. Nobody respects Ottke. You can go on any online forum etc to see how he's perceived.

Of course it isn't.

Poor Joe, the guy who wanted the big fights, who couldn't them. Heard it all before.

Why would the likes of Roy have wanted to fight a European, 168 fighter, when he was the unified 175 champ?

Joe could have moved up to LHW and fought in America much sooner than 2008.

He could have LEFT SMW. There was nothing stopping him. He left in 2008. He could have left whenever he'd have wanted to. He told everyone of his desire to move up in 2004, but changed his mind to fight the likes of Mkrtchyan and Salem.

Has it ever occurred to you that he could have moved up the 175 rankings like Woods did for a mando shot at Roy?

He had options.

 

Nobody would care if Kessler fought away 100 times.

Joe gets labelled as a stay at home fighter because he never fought in America in his prime.

A top fighter not fighting in America = A stay at home fighter.

That's how simple it is.

 

WHO was Joe defending against when he was prime???

He only has the best stats at SMW because he fought there for fourteen years.

He should have the best SMW resume of all time, based on stats.

But is it that impressive?

It has to be a greater achievement winning titles in other weight classes than waiting ten years to unify a weak division.

 

Of course they do.

How many fighters have gone to the U.S. to further their careers? Non U.S. fighters have based themselves over there. The U.S. is the home to the majority of the worlds best fighters. The biggest promoters are U.S. based. The biggest fights happen in the U.S.

If a non U.S. based fighter wants to have the biggest fights, that's where they go.

 

Are you serious? Why would anyone feel a need to travel to the US if he is getting more money/popularity at home or elsewhere? To prove himself to the US fans? Don't be ridiculous.

 

Vow, zhis ist zie vonderful exhibition of elite boxing knowledge from Bailey, vell done on thrashing zie nincampoop vith zie irrefutable facts.

 

well calzaghe needed the welsh refs to stop his fights early, in order to maintain his unbeaten record. else he'd probably have had a few defeats before Lacy.

so I understand why he fought a lot in Wales.

 

bailey,

How did it take my argument away?

Yet more stats that don't allow for circumstances.

I never said I rated it, I said that in my opinion Joe may not have been willing to enter it.

Once again, Sheika and Brewer etc weren't classed as top fighters.

Do you seriously think that beating Herol Graham at that stage of his career was anything special?

You think that the above resume is FANTASTIC?

Schooled?

Roy wasn't interested in the end and went with other options. We're talking about Roy because he's relevant to this discussion. Joe said he wanted to fight the likes of Roy in 2001, and he said he wanted big money fights for recognition in 2004, as well as saying that he knew he had to leave SMW because he'd done all he could, and he knew he had to fight in America to achieve that. We've all seen the quotes. But he decided to stay and fight the likes of Mkrtchyan and Salem. Which is why he gets labelled as a stay at home fighter. I've told you before to go and watch the two documentaries on YouTube and hear the thoughts of Larkin, DiBella, Davis and Hauser etc.

If he'd have moved up sooner, he wouldn't now be labelled as a stay at home fighter. Also, it's possible that he could have achieved more than he did.

Moving up in weight was never an issue.

Joe gets labelled as a stay at home fighter because the U.S. fans saw how good he was against Lacy, and have since questioned why he never showcased his talents in the U.S. while prime.

There were only two realistic ways of him getting Roy in the ring.

1. Move up and go to the U.S. to try and promote the fight.

2. Move up and hope to be a mandatory, and take whatever was on offer.

That was it. Either 1 or 2, and nothing else.

He did neither of those things and didn't get the fight. (prime)

 

I'm really tired of typing the word circumstances. I must type it in every post that I reply with.

Haye is a HW and the men in the division are/were the K Bros.

He went to Germany to fight Wlad.

Joe said that he wanted Roy, and Roy fought in the U.S.

He also said in 2004 that he wanted to have big fights in the U.S. at LHW. At the time, there was Roy, Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver there.

But we know that he instead fought Mkrtchyan and Salem etc.

Joe had bigger and better fights in the U.S. but was content doing what he was doing.

Why do you always try and do like for like comparisons?

 

No to both