Tell me Boxing fans. Do/did you rate Calzaghe and Kessler as stay at home fighters?

How many top fighters did Joe fight in the opponents homecountry?

 

they were both pretty good though, I rate them B+ personally near elite but missing vital elements in their armory, Kessler was missing some good ring intelligence, and Joe didn't have good skills in some areas.

 

It appears to me that it's fairly irrelevant, especially as no US fan ever seems to consider a US Boxer always fighting in USA as a stay at home fighter due to them being in the self proclaimed 'home of boxing'. Essentially it's used by American fans to discredit none American boxers for not fighting in their country.

 

so from neutrals point of view, that's zero from that list then. wow ZERO. even Hopkins wasn't top no more, though hes pretty near it.

this is why Joe gets looked over.

 

bailey,

But why is that so impressive? Most of the great fighters that fought there at some point or another didn't stay there as long.

Now in 2004, Joe said that he'd done all he could, and he wanted bigger fights and recognition. He spoke of moving up to 175, and fighting in America. They were Joe's own words.

Other fighters moved on, but despite what Joe said, he decided to stay where he was. In the end it worked out for him. But when he made those comments Lacy and Kessler hadn't really done anything. So he admitted that he needed to move on, but then backtracked. Yet you're heaping praise on him.

Like I've previously mentioned, Joe basically has the best stats of all time at 168, through a lack of ambition.

How long did Evander stay at CW?

Of course it was a lack of ambition. These were his WBO title defences when he was in his mid 20's to early 30's, from Eubank to Lacy.

Sobot, Ferreyra, Reid, Thornberry, Starie, Sheika, Woodhall, Veit x2, McIntyre, Brewer Jiminez, Pudwell, Mitchell, Mkrtchyan, Salem and Ashira.

That's not longevity.

I always put things into context. You never do.

For example, you can't see that Joe beat a underprepared Eubank, who was at the end of the road.

You only see that Joe beat Eubank, who'd beaten Benn and Watson etc.

You've no perspective.

He turned pro in 93, and unified in 2007.

I'm willing to accept that they were circumstances as to why fights didn't get made. I've no problem with that. But you're praising the fact that he just went along with it all.

On an other thread, you've said that Joe was the man in two divisions, but Roy wasn't. But what you don't note, is that when Roy couldn't get certain fights at 168, due to circumstances, he left. He left and went to 175. He could have stayed at 168 for many years and waited for things to clear. But he showed ambition and moved up a weight, eventually moving to HW for a brief period. But in your eyes, Joe being the man at 168 was a bigger achievement. It doesn't make any sense.

You're just embarrassing yourself with your lack of perspective.

Not at all. I've never said he wasn't a great fighter.

I can see the whole picture.

Winning titles in four weight classes, including HW, after starting out at 154, with wins over Hopkins, Toney, Hill, Griffin, Tarver and Ruiz etc, is better than being the man in a weak division for the most part, and beating Lacy, Kessler, Eubank and struggling with Hopkins etc.

 

bailey,

Aren't you getting bored of having the same discussions?

How so?

Roy's opponents fought Roy in America. Joe didn't want to fight in America.

Most of Roy's mandatories fought for less than $1m.

Also, they fought at different weights.

IF is the biggest word in the dictionary.

IF it could be agreed.

But it was never going to be agreed.

Roy and HBO weren't interested. They considered him as an option, but in the end, went with other options.

Realistically, he was never going to get the fight. Who wanted to see it? The U.S. fans hardly knew Joe.

His team did have talks, but he didn't fight in Roy's country or his weight class. So he hardly forced the issue did he?

He kept defending his WBO belt, against mainly substandard opposition, supposedly hoping that Roy would be interested.

It was never going to happen.

The thing with you is this, you blame Roy for not being interested, but you don't blame Joe for not making himself an attractive enough proposition, or a mandatory.

He wouldn't promote himself to the U.S. public.

He didn't fight at Roy's weight class.

The fight was NEVER going to happen back then.

You can talk about Joe not wanting to give up his belt, because he was making good money etc. But that was nothing to do with Roy.

They were Joe's circumstances, not Roy's.

Once again, if you want the champ, you go to the champ.

Having talks, isn't the same as moving up the rankings at 175 etc.

You're as deluded as Joe was.

Look at this embarrassing interview.

http://youtu.be/1qeXpJlLNzs

He briefly considered it, then fought Ruiz.

Yeah, it was Roy's fault for the fight not happening. Ha!

 

yeah it was all roys fault, not joes for not going to America. No, Roy shouldda come over to Cardiff to get recognition in Wales by fighting Enzo Mac.

 

Stop at home fighters: Ward

Not stop at home fighters: Kessler and Super Joe