Tell Me Where You Stand On These Classic Boxing Controversies

Ali Liston 2 was not a fix! Ali's lightining quick right hand "jab" square on Liston's left temple. The way Liston reacts is exactly the way one reacts when his equilibrium is shot (see Trevor Berbick's end with Tyson) you are truly that delayed off balance.
That punch by Ali was one of the greatst ever thrown in the history of the sport.

 

1. Not fake as in a mob or Muslim inspired way, but there were many bugs in Liston's head that affected his performance in both fights, not that Ali wouldn't have beat him anyway. It's harder to explain the second fight. It may have been a legit punch, but not enough to drop Liston and definitely not enough to ko him. Liston was spooked on his own, and took the easy way out in Lewiston, and really in Miami too.
2. Hagler beat him on the basis of quality, but not flashy punches, even a draw would have been fair.
3. The Chavez-Taylor shouldn't have been stopped with 2 or 3 seconds to go, no matter what the reason.
4. Pryor didn't cheat, he was just younger, stronger, faster and a bit crazy, which helped make him a bit punch resistant, as in fueled by adrenalin.

 

What do you mean there is no proof. You can plain as day see pryor drinking a liquid that was not water. It doesn't matter what it was. Whether it was grape kool-aid or a mysterious liquid from another planet. If it wasn't water it was illegal and unless you can show me plain black water, I can't understand how anyone would dispute that he did something illegal.

Here is a question for those of you saying that there is not enough proof that he cheated. Suppose a boxer competes in a 12 round fight. He clearly outboxes his opponent without taking any damage and wins a wide UD. Throughout the fight he never visually stuns his opponent and his punching power does not really seem to be a factor in the fight. However when he removes his gloves it is revealed that he had loaded gloves. Would you say that there is not enough proof that he cheated since his power was not really a factor and he would probably have won either way? same case with pryor here. If you want to make an argument that he could have still won without the black bottle fine. But there is an undeniable fact. He drank a substance other than water in a fight where water is the only legal substance. That's cheating

 

1. The kd was, in my opinion, a legitimate punch. It wasn't the even the best punch that Ali landed in the fight (his right hand at the beginning of the fight was harder), but, it did catch Liston leaning in, and its placement (near the temple) was enough to cause Liston to touch down. Of course, everything after that point was more than likely an overblown acting job from a fighter who decided he wasn't going to win the fight...

2. Hagler 6-4-2. I thought Marvin did the better in the later rounds to overtake SRL on the socrecards. SRL did box very well, though, and it's far from the worst decision that I've ever seen...

3. Yep. It's not the ref's responisbility to factor in the time remaining. His sole concern is to determine whether the fighter is fit to continue. Taylor was in a very bad way, and had absorbed a harrowing beating over the last few rounds of the fight, and, given that he was non-responsive, Steele was right to stop it.

4. Well, if Pryor didn't cheat, then Panama Lewis sure as hell did.

 

1. Don't know. Until proven otherwise, I'll assume it wasn't.
2. SRL won 7-5.
3. Yes, the fight should've been stopped.
4. Sure as hell don't know.

 

First off?? Nice thread:happy Now down to business!!

1. Was Ali vs Liston II a fix, was the KO blow legit?

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2. SRL vs Marvin Hagler- Who won?

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3. Meldrick Taylor vs Chavez- Should the fight have been stopped?

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4. Arron Pryor vs Arguello I- Did Pryor cheat?

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No chance. Not even close.

Think of it from the other perspective. Chavez was getting cleanly outpointed. After round 6, he pretty much knew he needed a knockout. He kept trying, kept trying, kept trying. He started to break through in the last 4 rounds, but Meldrick was tough.

Even halfway through the last round, Meldrick was hanging tough. Chavez had gone the whole fight trying unsuccessfully to chop him down, and then finally, finally, in the last few seconds available to him, he tags him properly and Meldrick falls.

Taylor gets up. He's clearly very groggy and his legs are wobbly. His gloves are not tucked up under his chin. Steele asks him if he's okay. Meldrick looks away with a dazed, blank look and doesn't respond to the question.

THEN:

Steele allows the fight to go on, just so that he can pull the fighters apart 5 seconds later, after a defenseless Taylor soaks up a couple more from Chavez, because Taylor won more early rounds and therefore "deserves" the fight. And make no mistake, he would have eaten a few before Steele pulled Chavez away.

The match was scheduled for 12 rounds. Chavez stopped him fair and square within the allowed time. Steele is the ref, not the timekeeper. Given the evidence right in front of him, he made the right call according to the rules. To not stop the fight would have meant Steele made the decision to rob Chavez, and THAT robbery would have been FAR worse. Chavez did what he needed to do, and Steele did what his job compelled him to do.

:hat

 

1. Gotta give Ali the benefit of the doubt. The KO was legit.

2. Leonard won the fight.

3. The stoppage was good. Very unfortunate for Taylor, and made worse by his condition now. But it was a legit stoppage.

4. Have no idea.

 

I can't belive you ridiculous pryor fans in denial
Ask your self these simple questions.

1. Is breaking the rules cheating
2., was it against the rules to drink anything other than water
3, Did pryor drink a colored substance that was not water.

Stop making exuses for him people. The man cheated.

 

1. Fix. Ali reacted as though he knew it was going to happen.

2. Leonard. Hagler had every chance to carry out a different fight plan and he didn't.

3. Good stoppage. Taylor unwisely went toe to toe with Chavez and got stopped.

4. Yes. What Lewis said between rounds and how Pryor performed in the next round is very suspicious.

 

enough about pryor arguello my take on the other ones

1. Legit punch
2. Leanord.
3. Good stoppage. a ko is a ko no matter when it comes.

 

Rumor???

That is'nt a rumor.......When Panama Lewis was told that their was video tape evidence of him calling for a bottle that he had mixed, he went to work again, and concocted another mix of bull**** and called it the peppermint shnapps story.
Panama said that the bottle contained peppermint schnapps to calm down Aaron Pryor's upset stomach!

I guess we should take Panama's word for it huh? :nut

 

Nevermind the fact that peppermint schnapps is actually clear.

 

OK man, that would make it a rumor. Settle down.

 

1. No. He got dropped. Didnt beat the count.

2. Hagler should of won. Not even close.

3. Fair stoppage. He was way ahead, got hurt pretty good.
Ref stops the fight. Couldnt go the distance.

4. Pryor kicked his ass twice. I suppose he cheated twice.
Total domination. His performance was consistent with the
way he fought in most of his previous fights. I do not think that
it would have been closer if Arguello took his energy drink.