Tell me why Floyd is better than Pac

No one said Floyd was 'lucky' but let's not pretend that Shane would have let him off the hook like that even five years before. Mosley had looked slow and ponderous against Cotto and Mayorga before he demolished Margarito. Then he has a year out of the ring.

Are you trying to tell me that Shane didn't look seriously diminished? Falling over his punches, struggling to pull the trigger, against someone who doesn't punch as hard as Oscar?

Balls. Shane is far beyond his prime, but how Mayweather handled it is still admirable. Would Pac have allowed Floyd to hold on like that?

And Pac would have stopped Mosley that night going on all the evidence.

 

With respect, you dont judge fighters on how refined their skillset is do you ? if so, where would you rank the likes of Frazier?

No one is saying that. Take Pac, he looked tremendous against Margo, and even though I was fully aware Margo was another aggressive fighter who's technique he could exploit with his sharp shooting style, fast feet, I gave him the benefit of the doubt cause it was a great performance, that said, if I got to talking about the fight with some hardcore Pacfan, not that im calling you a hardcore Mayweather fan, just that this thread is about breaking every aspect of each fighter down, and he started telling me Pac is going to do this, that and the other to Mayweather, going overboard, I would bring it up, to guard against exaggeration, which is why I have made that (about Pac)perfectly clear in this thread. If someone was going off on some silly tangent, trying to over-exaggerate, you wouldn't think its valid to bring that up to keep a bit of perspective ? now as I say, I know you! have not gone on that tangent, but we talking about these fighters in detail, so I think bringing these things to light, needs to be said.

I know.

Its like assessing a fighter, you dont just look at the fact he won his fight, particularly if he had problems in the fight (Oscar, Judah), and had to adjust, you look at what you perceive to be specific flaw, flaws that someone else might be able to exploit, its not a case of, dont bring that up cause he got the W, you are trying to look ahead to potential fights against better fighters, thinking how will he cope then, which is fair imo.

He was.

I dont agree with that, Mayweather exploited that aspect because of the way Oscar holds his hands, his vision is obscured by the way he holds his hands, particularly the left side, which is why both Mayweather, and!! Mosley, were able to land that right hand stroke hook around his guard.

DLH feel asleep behind the wheel, he fell into that robotic stalker mode, which you might assert was BECAUSE! Mayweather used more lateral movement, which is fair, but I always think fights change as a culmination of factors, like I thought Pavlik's cut coincided with Martinez's decision to hold his feet more, throw more combination's, instead of the singles he was throwing earlier, as I felt that is why Williams got the decision over him, he did not do enough to repel Williams offense imo, only against Pavlik he made a conscious to stand his ground, now I dare say the cut aided that decision, but that fight changed due to a culmination of factors imo.

Whats silly about that? your fresh at that stage in the fight. All I know, is what I say, which was Mosley's mouth wide open, with little to no power on his punches at times.

 

i think money is too smart for pacman.

dont get me wrong i really like manny's style, i just think that for manny to beat floyd he will have to addapt to a similar style to floyd's to even get close to him.

i cant see manny having the skill to change his style that much for the course of the fight......

floyd wins on points.

 

:deal

 

yeah, great thread, no bitching like the general.

if someone has a valid point and someone else does not like it, there is no need to call them a noob or some other ****, which is the norm on the general.....

i dont go on the general much after 6pm uk time cos all the idiots seem to be on after that time.

im staying british for the main!

good stuff lads

 

You also would need to take into account that Cotto's style and size play a part in that too. I think it's a more meaningful win keeping all that in mind. But Floyd obviously beat Shane more convincingly.

 

I posted on another site how I felt Mosley showed stamina issues in the Cotto fight, even though he finished strong, he was blowing like a mofo toward the end, and looked at times, as though he was driving himself on to throw punches, not that he had it in his tank, and that was in 07 or 08, which is why, at the time, I attributed some of his win over Margo, on the fact he was allowed to hold excessively, which cut of Margo's supply line, helped him grab a breather when he needed it.

 

Looks like the British forum isn't dead after all :happy

I think where Floyd lets himself down (as Flea says) is not looking for the stoppage. He's content to just win fights - as mentioned earlier once he takes the centre of the ring he can back his opponent up and have them at sixes and sevens as to what to do.

He could/should have stopped Judah
He could have stopped Oscar
He should have stopped Shane

The biggest difference between these fights and the Hatton fight is that Hatton was always in the hunt - i.e. going desperately for a come from behind KO and as such took more punishment and was eventually stopped.

It's great being able to make adjustments - obviously the best time to do those is when your plan isn't working..... but it's like Rendall Munroe all over again.... slow start, slow start, slow start - then the change up to win the fight.

Surely the watching of video footage would give you a decent idea as to how to approach the fight from the first bell?

However, I've still got to be sceptical as to some of Pacquiao's achievements above 135.

DLH was basically a dead man walking, Hatton mentally shot to **** and minus a trainer.

The Cotto fight is probably his best win since Marquez II, leaving aside the catchweight stuff, he was outboxed for the odd round but let's be honest, he ate Cotto for breakfast. Taking his best shots to head and body, eventually putting him on the retreat trying to go the distance.

Clottey was crap and hasn't beaten anyone of note for ages (if ever) and didn't exactly come to win, and Margarito had only had a single unimpressive ten round win over a nobody since being brutalised by Shane.

Now then..... as to the fight :hey

I'm on the fence for now, always gone for Mayweather previously but reserving my judgement for now.

 

True, but i did say technically, combined with the weaknesses he has inherent in himself, it makes for a fighter who is great, but i could never see him beating a top level welterweight (his most natural weight imo) from history, that's all i meant, not sure if we were on the same page there mate.

On Frazier, well he's a swarmer, so i assess him on that basis. One of the finest swarmers of all time. Great head movement, beautiful left hook, his arsenal is not the most full, but he has brilliant technique in his power punches, amazing body attack, he closes the gap so fast and stays there that it's just a ridiculous task outboxing him. He has fine natural attributes to supplement his style as well, strength, power etc etc. Easily one of the best swarmers to ever do it. Oscar is a technician, i rate him on that, and it's not evident that he is one of the best technicians of all time. I did say though that i wasn't knocking his achievements, and he was effective, and considerably, so i do rate him as an atg operator on some level. Someone like Napoles could beat him convincingy imo, and i think Duran would brutalise him to be honest.

Ok my apologies

On these points i can only say that we'll have to agree to disagree, i saw the fight these things the way i saw them. I think Mosley was outclassed and that had a lot to do with him being tired etc

 

I said pages ago that Mosley was past his prime. What i'm saying is that on that night, he got outclassed plain and simple.

All i can say on the ac fight is that i'm willing to go on record now that ayweather wins, if you are going to say Pac wins then we have a situation where one of us will be right and one of us will be wrong. If all your point is is to say that if Pac hurt Floyd on the night Mosley did then he wouldn't let him off the hook, then i think that's a moot point. I think Maweather beats Pac, we'll probably get to find out soon.

 

I think the wins aren't that dissimilar, but if you're going to say which one was better then you can only say Cotto's. Mosley is only getting older. Neither of them beat a prime Mosley though.

If we're talking performances then Mayweather clearly trumps Cotto. I usually differentiate between performance and win myself. Wins enhance resume, performances enhance how i think of the fighter as an operator. I know that both are linked though.

 

Okay, fair play, no worries :thumbsup

 

Just looking back over the posts, sorry if i was coming across a bit obnoxious before. You put your argument and opinions in in the proper way there.

Good poster my man:good