Teofimo Lopez calls Lomachenko a “basic fighter” and “expected more from him”

Perhaps you are correct. He thought he could make it through. If he had postponed, the fight wouldn't have happened until February Or later. Which means he would have had an 18 month layoff. Maybe the thought of such a long layoff, then facing Lopez was a bit much in his mind. I can see that.

 

I hate to say, but it makes me wonder if more fighters will hide an injury just to get in the ring w/ this covid crap.

 

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Canelo is a very underrated boxer/technician, that ability however is'nt effective when your opponent is just as good and it much quicker and faster than you are. Its what happened to Canelo vs Mayweather. Canelo took the cautious approach and tried his hand at boxing a much quicker and faster fighter. Did'nt work, Mayweather's would shoot quick, fast and sharp one two's and move to the laterals.
Seeing first hand the difference between his quickness and speed and Mayweather's, Canelo became timid and fought as cautiously as I've ever seen him in a fight. Like Lomachenko vs Lopez, Canelo just did'nt throw punches the first 5 rounds of the fight.

I'll note that at least two maybe even three rounds that I gave Canelo, it was mostly because Mayweather himself took to being cautious for most of the late rounds. Oh sure, he posed it off as if he was in cruise control and dictating, but he just was'nt throwing any meaninful punches while Canelo was outhustling and ourworking him to earn those rounds.
Fighters do it all the time, they have sucess early and come to a cross roads where the opponent somewhat figures him out while he is slowing down and not quite as sharp as the early rounds. At this point fighters as astute as Mayweather knowing that judges are really just as gullible to be conned as the rest of the public, commence to try to present themselves and win rounds on presentation in the process of exherting little to no effective punches.
In other words, they use body language as a means to con the public and more importantly the judges.

I'm sorry, but body language and facial expressions dont do it for me, I'm always looking for who is making the fight by throwing punches and more importantly, who's landing the cleaner more effective shots on a consistent basis throughout the round.
5 out of the last 7 rounds for me, Mayweather did'nt cut the mustard in the scoring criteria.

 

Dudes go through hell. I'm sure they do.

 

Mayweather is the master at this. It also helps that he's ridiculously physical strong (see him ragdolling big welterweight Mosley). You can't wrestle him and it's hard to snap his head back, which conveys to the judge that it was an ineffective shot. If you look at a guy like Pac, he's physically very weak. Jabs send his head snapping back and his hair goes flying. His clinch game is to literally turn his head and wait for the ref to break it up. And blocked shots send him flying back giving off the illusion that he's being hit flush and backed up.

I wish I had bookmarked it, but there was a sequence in the Horn fight where he drove Pac to the ropes and launched an attack. In real time, it looked like Pac was brutalized. In slow motion, it showed Pac evade every single shot, but he's dipping and bounching off the ropes.

 

So, the # of punches Canelo threw and landed vs Mayweather were way higher in the first 5 rounds of what Loma threw vs Lopez. It's not an apt comparison.

Lets just look at the Compubox #s to illustrate my point, particularly in the punches thrown category.

Total Punches -
Loma vs Lopez -- Canelo vs Mayweather
Round 1 -- 1/4 -- 5/27
Round 2 -- 5/12 -- 7/38
Round 3 -- 2/11 -- 8/37
Round 4 -- 5/9 -- 14/38* same #s as Mayweather this round
Round 5 -- 5/9 -- 13/40

So on average, Canelo threw 4 TIMES as many punches per round over the first 5 rounds vs Mayweather than what Loma threw vs Lopez. And according to Compubox, Canelo landed nearly 3 times as many punches per round on Mayweather over the first 5 rounds than Loma did vs Lopez.

You see the difference here? Canelo was way more active vs Mayweather than Loma was vs Lopez over the first 5 rounds, it's not even remotely comparable. And Canelo's # of punches thrown didn't increase in the 2nd half to the extent that Loma's did. They increased slightly in a couple of the later rounds but Loma's # of punches increased massively in the 2nd half.

Mayweather's quickness was on full display vs Canelo, but he also was pulling back a ton with his upper body and bit on a record number of feints. Mayweather flinched on Canelo feints 35 times throughout the fight and 20 times just in the first 3 rounds alone. Now you're saying using body language can con the public or the judges, look I want to be clear that scoring rounds are mostly about clean punches landed. But ring generalship is a factor, and body language is another thing, Loma's body language sent a message to the judges early on that he was not intent on fighting. It wasn't just his body language it was his output which was a product of his body language. He was backing away, backing away, not looking ready to fight. The difference was Canelo maintained a high level of concentration early on vs Mayweather, staying in the pocket engaging in a chess match and trying to go tit-for-tat with Mayweather while Loma was essentially just stalling vs Lopez early on moving away and pretty much doing nothing outside of a couple of moments in the 2nd round.

But when you're dealing with Mayweather who was being feinted out his goddamn mind in the first 3 rounds vs Canelo, that plays a factor in the scoring. And all 3 judges gave Canelo at least one of the first 3 rounds so body language or not they noticed what Canelo was doing. But these rounds were close and hard to score. Canelo was being cautious but he was finding openings and landing clean shots, particularly in the 3rd and 4th rounds. Note the final 30 seconds of the 2nd round Canelo landed a beautiful clean hook across Mayweather's face and ended that round strong. In round 3 and 4 Canelo started opening up on Floyd and landed some clean shots. I do agree with you however when you talk about the last 7 rounds, which starts with round 6. Canelo stepped up in round 6 and while I had it even was a round that easily could have been scored to Canelo. But it wasn't, all judges gave it to Mayweather, like the 4th which was another good Canelo round given to Mayweather by all 3 judges.

So the judges gave Mayweather very favorable scoring over the first 6 rounds. What was a 5-1, 5-1, 4-2 Mayweather lead after 6 rounds could have very easily been 4-2, 4-2, 3-3 or even closer if the judges gave Canelo the 4th or the 6th as they should have. So I agree with you to an extent about Mayweather in cruise control down the stretch while Canelo was outhustling and outworking him in many of those late rounds. Particularly rounds 10 and 12 are examples of this. Mayweather was getting booed for stalling in the 12th for example and while Canelo landed the cleaner shots that round. I still had Mayweather winning rounds 8, 9 and 11 and I found rounds 8 and 11 pretty easy to score for Mayweather. 9 was more of a toss up imho.

 

good luck Divac.. the rabbit hole of word salads is all on you now.

 

The guy cannot stop talking about Canelo, even in a Lopez vs Loma thread.

 

So lets review. We got here by CST80 saying that the same kind of thing happened to Mayweather that happened to Loma (vs Salido and now vs Lopez) "Floyd had his Salido moment against Castillo, and his Lopez moment against Maidana, lucky for Mayweather, he was the A-side and had that good ol' fashioned American home field advantage."

Then in post #99, in response to this, divac pointed out that Mayweather Castillo and Mayweather Maidana were much closer than Loma Lopez and how Loma didn't fight the first 6+ rounds which was an effective counter.

But then divac said he thought a better comparison was Canelo Mayweather and attempted to equate Canelo's performance vs Mayweather to Loma's performance vs Lopez. This is where I came in to address the reasons why that comparison doesn't work. divac claimed that Canelo did "zero" the first half of the match vs Mayweather. The compubox numbers do not reflect that, and this kind of a comment from divac perpetuates a myth regarding Canelo Mayweather that, and is being said as a means to "excuse" Loma's poor performance vs Lopez by claiming Canelo had a similarly poor performance vs Mayweather early on which is far from what happened. Canelo not only threw and landed a ton more punches on Mayweather in the first 5 rounds than Loma did on Lopez, but he also was feinting Mayweather and was engaged in a high level chess match with who was then considered to be the P4P best (Mayweather). To argue that Loma's performance particularly over the first half of the match was in any way comparable to Canelo's performance vs Mayweather over the first half of their match is laughable. Loma's output was super low, Canelo's output vs Mayweather was much higher. he was actually engaged in a chess match with Mayweather. Loma on the other hand wasn't doing anything.

Further, Lopez wasn't a seasoned veteran P4P #1 like Mayweather was, and Canelo was dialed in vs Mayweather, feinting him and giving Floyd a tough night's work. Whereas Loma was just on his bike not throwing any punches. And remember Loma is supposed to be the veteran here, the one doing the schooling like Mayweather was expected to do to Canelo. Not the other way around. Mayweather in 2013 was a much tougher opponent than Lopez and, at least in the first half of the match, Canelo was performing much better vs Mayweather and was fighting at a much higher level than Loma was vs Lopez. Now in the 2nd half of the match, you can certainly argue Loma was landing more on Lopez than Canelo was vs Mayweather, but obviously Lopez is much easier to hit than Mayweather so again it's not really a comparison that makes sense.

So I appreciate divac's perspective here and how he thought Canelo did well vs Mayweather in the final 7 rounds but for me Canelo was doing better early on than he did late and starting in Round 7 Mayweather started to take over. And the judges scores sort of suggest it went the way that divac said with Canelo doing zero early on then starting to outwork Mayweather over the final 7 rounds. There was some of that but overall I thought Mayweather started making adjustments after the 6th round after struggling mightedly over the first 6 and starting in round 7 started to take. divac sees that differently and the issue I have is trying to compare Loma's performance in the first half which everybody is criticizing to Canelo's performance in the first half vs Mayweather. Canelo performed way better vs a much tougher opponent and it's frankly insulting to Canelo or anyone to be compared to Loma's performance early on vs Lopez. That was embarrassing.

 

So not on your xmas card list by the looks of it? ;p

 

Two half-wits dreaming about being a real woman. That’s not my wife, it’s your little friend with a wig. You guys can’t find a real woman so you have to take turns on each other. Two *** smokers and I’m not talking cigarettes.

 

Yeah, sure, chachi...whatever.

 

I don’t think Loma is a guy who makes excuses. I can’t see any legit fighter getting shoulder surgery to cover up a loss. Either way, I think he’s too small for 135. He was noticeably smaller than Lopez and didn’t do anything in the first half of the fight.
Lopez is a legit threat at 140 and Loma can easily make 126. I hope Loma moves to 130 and Lopez fights at least two top LWs before moving to 140. Would like to see him fight Garcia if he beats Campbell or Tank if Davis ever fights a guy who is not moving up two weight classes.

I gave Lopez some **** for lack of class but that’s smal potato’s compared to guys who cherry pick and duck top guys. Lopez appears to be willing to fight top opponents. This is good for boxing and he has the skills to become a PPV star.

 

when you hand a fighter a belt instead of making him earn it