Terence Crawford's Legacy

Before we get off track, let me first point out that I didn't say that you suggested he wasn't HOF worthy. My entire comment was addressing the notion of you suggesting his resume is "too thin" to be considered for his ATG status......

Me pointing out the fact that he was involved in a protocol for HOFers while he is still competing suggest that those who actual critique, rank, follow, dissect, etc....this sport suggest that his value is higher than you are suggesting being that he is THE ONLY active fighter to have ever done this.

Also, you asked if I was serious about Horn, Khan, Brook..... Again....you are creating an argument that is non existent with me. I didn't point these guys out to suggest they were elite. I pointed them out to showcase, Crawford fought world class fighters. Former champions. But really to showcase that just because American fighters don't respect their value in the sport, doesn't mean that they were no namers.... If you actually follow either of those guys, you would see that they have an entire country that supported them throughout their career and it heightened when they faced American talent. Disrespecting them as formidable talent is convenient for someone with an agenda behind their argument... Because those same people will try to make it seem as though someone like Sugar Ray Leonard has a resume full of Hall of Famers.... Like Marvin Hagler or Tommy Hearns beat down on a bunch of A-list fighters........ Sugar Ray faced 4 fighters whom are Hall of Famers today. Could you name all 4 without a google search. The easy 3 are the other 3 "Kings"..... Boxing Fans can name the 4th, but most who claim to be boxing fans today are actually Man Fans and wouldn't know who that 4th guy is......

So the reason I pointed those names out is to show that 10-30 years after Crawford has hung up his gloves, the only thing that matters is what is documented in history of the sport.....WHO he beat will not live longer that WHAT he beat as history continues down the timeline. Man Fans will bark about Floyd Mayweather having 26 consecutive world title bouts which he clearly won. Some where close to arguable losses (like Maidana in the first fight). I think he won 9 or 10 by stoppage in that time if I remember correctly. People don't always stress WHO he beat (Ortiz, Berto, McGregor, Mitchell....). They point out WHAT he beat......other world champions highlighting the biggest of those names like Manny, Cotto, Canelo......

Crawford has now had 18 consecutive world title fights. 16 of those fights ended in a stoppage..... And Crawford DOMINATED each of those opponents. Not one was close enough for us to question if Crawford was the better man at least on that night......Why is it we are stuck on the WHO with Crawford and not the WHAT..........

Saying if he beat Canelo then his legacy rises is a given......but pointing it out in this discussion makes it sound like if it doesn't happen, his legacy takes steps backwards and/or never gets off the ground in the first place....The same argument that was made for a fight vs ERROL SPENCE JR.......aka The Boogie Man.......aka The Body Snatcher.......aka The Eye Collector.......aka Mr. Big Fish........aka The Big Ticket......etc........but after the fight, we are now making it seem like he was some amateur level opponent

 

I reread, and see your point. My point more generically is we seem to be in an era where evidencing you can beat someone via fan debate has just as much relevance as the fights themselves.

 

I respect this and agree. But we also have to look at the timeline and reporting leading up to these fights, thus why I suggested that people often move the goal post when it comes to Crawford.

People look at Gamboa as a shell of himself in hindsight after he was demolished by Crawford....but his status was a top 5 p4p, undefeated when he walked into the ring with Crawford. Hell, arguably, he gave Crawford fits for 2/3 rounds before the adjustment. Crawford beats him and he is some "washed" opponent, yet.....young fighters like Tank Davis and Devin Haney got ultimate respect for their Ws over him years later......

Shawn Porter was on his podcast talking about how he was looking to get rematches vs Thurman & Spence or even moving up to 154lbs. Said that he felt 147lbs "limits what he is able to do offensively". Then the Crawford fight is mandated. He and his dad chanted that they was going to give Crawford more pressure than he's ever felt in his career in the ring. There was never a hint of retirement. Hell they guaranteed a stoppage and doubled down in the final press conference. Then Crawford mentally as well as physically breaks Porter down and gives him his only stoppage loss of his career. Then the notion is that Porter had one foot in and one foot out. He was damaged goods from Spence, etc.....

Lord knows the millions of disadvantages they said regarding Spence vs Crawford and look at the discrediting of his accomplishment he's getting after getting what was argued the biggest fight/match up in boxing since Floyd/Manny..... a fight with 2 top 5 p4p talents in their prime, and the winner becomes the first undisputed champ on the welterweight division in the 4 belt era.......yet, here we are claiming he didn't have an argument for being an ATG based on the names and if they were in their prime.

Floyd didn't fight who I feel is the biggest names of his career........Canelo, Manny, Mosely, or De La Hoya in their prime, but no one discredits the accomplishments.

 

Anyone who even attempts to try and name 100 fighters in history who is better than a 2x Undisputed, 3x Lineal, 9x world champion and one of 3 fighters in history to win and ESPY Award.......we know they are truly have...."Brain Damage"......lol

 

Many people discredit Floyd’s accomplishments.

Regarding Crawford, he’s a great fighter. But he has a weak resume. That’s not his fault, but that is the reality of the situation.

 

Ali beat a half blind midget, a gunshot victim and a former light heavyweight gold medalist. But everyone rates him like somebody special. I don't understand it. These guys are nobody. When Creed was champ, that was the real golden era.

 

Why?

The sport’s history is very deep.

There’s been many great fighters, across all divisions, throughout the entire history of the sport.

Terrence is a great, great fighter.

But I don’t think it would be unreasonable for someone to list a hundred fighters under traditional ranking criteria.

If they did, it wouldn’t mean they had an agenda against Crawford, or they weren’t knowledgeable.

Over the past few years, I’ve seen many credible lists.

And most of the time, one of my favourite fighters, Mike McCallum doesn’t make the cut.

So if Mike doesn’t make it, I wouldn’t be aggrieved if Crawford didn’t.

Crawford isn’t better than Mike.

He hasn’t done anything to be ranked higher than Mike.

And Mike is just one quick example off of the top of my head.

Sure, the stats and the official accolades seem ultra impressive. But at the end of the day, who you beat and when, will always take precedence over any official titles.

Yes, being undisputed is great. But none of those titles change the fact that Crawford has a weak resume for someone trying to crack a top 100 of all time list.

The only thing that you could put forward, is your opinion on why you think he should rank there on a H2H basis, just based upon his ability/eye test.

 

Hey sorry you're triggered by facts.

But yes if he beats Canelo or even TsZyu convincingly, he's an ATG guaranteed.

 

Shirley you're not comparing Crawford to Ali.

 

Hey sorry you're triggered by facts. Take a chill pill buddy.

 

Tbf, I'd have TC as a favorite.

 

The mass don't discredit Floyd....stop it.

And as far as Crawford, that is not the reality....it is the opinions of a bunch of American fans who don't follow the sport beyond American boxing. No man accomplishes what he has accomplished with a "weak resume"...... American fans are simply looking for "sexy names".....not the caliber of the opponent. Because then they would have to understand the skill set and opposition of those opponents and who they faced..... Most are too lazy to even try to get that information, they simply just go off of their own limited knowledge of that fighter.

I remember before Crawford fought Gamboa, I was in San Antonio. Maybe 2 or 3 weeks before the bout. NBA playoffs. So many festivities going on outside of the Spurs having a crazy run on their way to a redeem championship, 5th for Timmy (Go Spurs). I remember being at a sports bar and they were playing an old Floyd fight....I believe vs Zab Judah... The subject of Crawford came about randomly and eventually grew into a debate as I was shock at how man people supported him in Texas as he wasn't close to the name he is now. He had just won his first world title shortly before off Ricky Burns. Out of all those people that was in that bar, not very many knew anything about Gamboa. You would have thought I was leading a civil rights movement the way they kind of sat there and listened to me explain how talented he was and the issues he would bring to Crawford.

Again, at the time.... Gamboa was a p4p fighter who had been out of the ring for a year......it's easy to suggest a foreign fighter is nobody because you know nothing about him. And most boxing followers aren't knowledgeable of the fighters beyond the ones they cheer for.

So "reality" is not a word that fits the description of that opinion.

 

Your criteria for ATG status differs from mine. Perhaps I place too much emphasis on who the fighter actually fights. I've always said that for me, an ATG needs longevity, accomplishments and level of opposition. That's what makes being an ATG special. Because the era in which someone fights plays a big roll. Nowadays, there's an ATG on every corner, every division, every year. I don't see it that way, but your points for granting TC ATG status are legit and you're going to feel the way you feel. From that perspective, you are not wrong. But let me ask you this. You think TC would beat Hearns, Hagler, Duran and Benitez? Is there any fighter on their level today that can challenge TC?

 

Zoo, Charlo, Canelo.

If he beats those he's arguably a top ten fighter.

He has the opportunity to cement his greatness is the point I was making.

 

Me as well.