Terry McGovern thread

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Melankomas, Apr 12, 2023.


  1. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Any info on him? His resume looks pretty good, although I heard his win over Gans was questionable. How good was he?
     
  2. BoB Box

    BoB Box "Hey Adam! Wanna play Nintendo?" Full Member

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    Good enough for you to ask questions about.
     
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  3. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He's my #20 p4p fighter of all time.

    His longevity wasn't great, but his run from drawing with Tim Callahan in 1898 to up until he got stopped by Young Corbett II just over 3-years later was astoundingly good.

    In 1899 he KO'd the excellent Pedlar Palmer in a round to win the BW world title. I think this was the first ever KO 1 in a WT fight.

    He then won his next 10 fights in a row, all by KO, including over future world BW champion Harry Forbes. Of those 10 x KO's, 3 were in the 1st round, 5 in the 2nd round & the remaining 2 in the 3rd round.

    Next he challenged ATG FW world champion George Dixon & stopped him in 8 rounds. He successfully defended the FW world title 5 times, all by KO, including twice against the brilliant Oscar Gardner & once against the huge punching and then 34-0-2 Aurelio Herrera.

    Less than a year after winning the BW title from Palmer, he fought the bigger & reigning LW world champion, and my #15 LW of all time, Frank Erne in a non title bout. He KO'd Erne inside 3 rounds.

    He ended 1900 by KO'ing the 9lbs heavier, legendary Joe Gans in the 2nd round. As you allude to, there were unusual betting patterns detected for this fight (from memory I think this led to boxing being banned in Chicago) and both fighters were arrested on suspicion of fixing the fight. Whilst the footage looks genuine to me, it's right to point out that people who have researched the background in detail (I have not) generally all reach the conclusion it was a likely fix -
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    Young Corbett II took his FW title by KO in 1901 (KO'ing him in a rematch in 1903) after which McGovern did little of note.

    So, poor longevity, relatively speaking amongst other ATG's, but whilst his star only shone briefly, it shone brightly. Even disregarding the Gans fight as a fix, KO'ing the reigning BW, FW & LW world champions within the space of a year, as well as pretty much everyone else he faced around that period, including some other fine fighters, is an amazing run.

    Where you rank him will depend largely on how much you value how good a fighter was at his absolute peak (McGovern was frighteningly good at his), versus how much you value a general high standard maintained throughout several years in a fighters career (McGovern scores more poorly here).
     
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  4. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    Wow. Terrific profile on McGovern! Very informative.
     
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  5. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Cheers Pugguy, much appreciated.
     
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  6. James Page

    James Page Active Member banned Full Member

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    I was never a huge fan. He was more of an east Coast fighter. I know he had a couple fights in SF at the old Mechanics Pavilion, but besides that he rarely ventured very far beyond Philadelphia.

    He had a decent career though.
    I still don't see him ever beating the likes of Ray Austin or Mark 2 sharp Johnson.
     
  7. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Fascinating! Wins over George Dixon and Joe Gans are surely enough to make you top 20 all time, although I've heard that Dixon was past it.
     
  8. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dixon was only 29, though arguably just beggining to slip.

    I don't factor the Gans win into my rating of McGovern as it was likely fixed. Winning fights over the reigning BW, FW and LW world champions, all within 1 year, is the cornerstone of his achievements. Especially as Palmer, Dixon (in particular) and Erne were all fine champions.

    The parallels with Armstrong doing similiar at FW, LW and WW have previously occured to me. Armstrong ranks higher as he went on to have a long reign at WW, winning 20 world title fights there, but Terry's accomplishments in this regard are still immense.
     
  9. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Hard to truly say if the Gans fight was fixed IMO. In the footage it just looks like Gans got caught, like all great fighters do. Plus, McGovern was a devastating puncher. I don't think impossible that Gans' pride got hurt from losing in such a fashion, and like Jack Johnson, claimed a dive to save his wounded ego.
     
  10. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree the footage looks genuine. Decent actors if faked.

    However, there were unusual betting patterns and other background context (@McGrain may be able to provide you with more detail) that leads most historians to consider the context most likely fixed.
     
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I see a few parallels with Mike Tyson.