Terry Norris vs Roberto Duran @ 154

Well, to discuss Sugar Ray Leonard is a dangerous matter cause some people seems to hate him, don´t understand why, and some seems to love him.
I don´t think you can compare SRL of the Terry Norris fight with SRL of the 2:th Duran fight or the Hagler fight.
It´s like comparing Ali from the Holmes fight with Ali from the Cleveland Williams or the Liston fights. People getting old. Don´t get me wrong here I remember when Terry Norris came around and he was good and fast, really liked him, but to compare him to a prime Leonard is a little to much for me.
Leonard in his prime was much better than Norris in his prime, in my opinion.

All the best
the predator

 

Leonard fought Duran and Hearns in his prime, when he was he 24-25 years old. He fought Norris 10 years later when his skills were clearly evaporaring. The man hadn't made jr middleweight since he fought Howard seven years earlier.

I'll start comparing the Hagler who fought Mugabi and Leonard to the version who fought Minter and Hamsho. Just watch yourself, Rooster.

You have one set of rules for your favs, and another set for the ones you dislike.

 

I think people forget the skill level of Norris and pay more attention to his glass chin. Leonard had more, but the difference in talent is not THAT much at all. He was even on the pound for pound list before he was stopped by Brown.

I like Terry by UD if he fought cautiously( the way he did against Brown in their rematch) 154 was not Duran's best weight and Norris was simply too fast, he might have even stopped Duran because he did have power too.

 

Im going to take the very best version of Duran at this weight and not focus to much on his inconsistencies.

That version I think wins and whilst quite clearly, not comfortably.

I do feel Norris gets a bit overlooked because his knockout losses but the man was knocked out by the consensus p4p hardest puncher ever and dropped the ball once against a long time welter titlist who could definitely punch..he avenged that defeat at least.
He had a good run of wins against a variety of fighters and styles...I dont think his chin embarrasses him to badly in this and I dont think at 154 Roberto has the sting of Jackson or even Brown in his fists.

I will pick Duran but not by much, Norris is clearly one of the best ever at this weight.

 

Predator it's been a long while since I seen you on classic Esb but I fell I must respond regarding the Norris bout. Only in the bizzaro universe is the defeated fighter considered to be superior to his conqueror.

The way I see it, Ray's best overall performance was the Hagler fight. He did slow a bit by round 5 but for him that's normal. I was very surprised at his ability at 160. I thought to myself "shouldnt he be slower?" but in fact he was as fast as 147 and rarely missed a right hand when he delivered it as you saw in the Benitez and Duran fights.

With the Hagler fight it only served to make him that much better by shedding ring rust. We know that much. I think 168 was a little high for him so I cut him some slack in the Lalonde fight. And besides, these kinds of fights toughen a fighter up as Leonard really could use it.

Then we have the Hearns rematch which means more rounds under his belt. I still do not see the decline that you and other people are talking about. I see Tommy's decline and saw it coming since the Medal and Dewitt fights. His decline reached critical mass in the Kinchen fight.


Follow that up with Leonard's last and perhaps most convincing win ever-UNO MAS and you'll understand why he went into the Norris fight a heavy favorite.

But.....how does the uno mas performance translate into a comparison with Ali from the Holmes and Berbick fight? Ray was dancing like the dancing master for all 12 rounds. Ali was plodding around with blubber hanging over his waistline since the Jimmy Young bout. The Ali from the Holmes bout was already huffing and puffing after one round with Holmes exclaiming "Oh God, 14 rounds to go!"

You see what I'm saying? All I'm asking for is proof, the proof that Ray was no longer functional. When you dominate a fight with Roberto Duran it is IMPOSSIBLE to make the claim that he was shot.

Now entering the Norris fight we Ray, a heavy favorite-unbeaten in 11 years. Sure he looked terrible but it was because Terry was that good, not that Ray was that bad. Ray's had this trouble with this particular fighter in the past. The only trouble was they werent good enough to beat him. Terry was.

Ray just couldnt handle the speed. He's NEVER been able to, we all know that.

The fact is, Ray held his own in the opening round until Terry landed that body shot.

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Terry landed it so hard it literally drove him into the ropes and that was the first time in the bout he was forced to hold on for a reprieve. But Ray came back in the closing seconds of the fight with a late rally.

End of round 1. Close but clear round for Terry

Ray realizes he needs to step on the gas and get Terry, who he realizes is a true threat, out of there. I have Ray winning this round based upon his work rate. he is successful in crowding Terry and making him uncomfortable. Since it is early, stamina is not an issue. Ray continues to crowd Terry until the competitor in him comes to the forefront. Kong has awoken!! and leonard realizes he's in big trouble!!

Terry immediately puts distance between himself and Ray and delivers a lightning quick right-left to the head. Leonard is in pain and immediately backs away trying to regroup. Ray sensing the new danger he is facing, once again tries to close the distance and engages Terry in a *******. In the blink of an eye, Terry puts Sugar down. The real Terry Norris has emerged.

Round 2 to Norris

Terry continues to box smartly and once more catches Ray to the body and slices thru Ray's high guard with a left uppercut for which there is no defense and takes over the fight completely and by round 3 Terry Norris has beaten Sugar Ray Leonard.

So we can see that contrary to popular belief that it was the blows of Terry Norris, not father time that defeated Leonard.

 

redrooster you hat leonard admit it

leomard was shot when he fought Noris

 

Red,

You can spin it all you like but you are going to have a very hard time convincing anyone that Leonard was even near his best for that fight.

Ray looked on his way out in the Hearns rematch 2 years earlier (probably even in the Lalonde fight 6 months before that). Terry's level of domination in that fight was impressive but putting that win into context takes away from that because clearly Ray was done.

 

and I'll admit it once I see proof of that claim

 

I'm not concerned about convincing other people. The proof is the Duran fight.

You got to prove to me that Ray was clearly done and you can't do that. What you're doing is making a claim but without the proof. I gave proof that he wasnt because how he performed in the Duran fight does not describe what a host fighter is.

The fact is it was Hearns on the way out at the time, not Leonard. He had just beaten Hagler which wasnt suppossed to have happened. How does beating Hagler mean you're over the hill?

 

:nono

Terry Norris aint Tommy Hearns, no KO in this one.

I do pick Norris to win tho by clear UD, Duran wasnt any good at this weight, in fact he was more often poor than good post `no mas`
He did have some great performances but it was almost an entirely different fighter than the ATG legend that fought from 72-80 (SRL 1)

 

I always find it unfair calling an opponent 'shot' after someone else dominates them. Sure Leonard may have been past prime and only fighting once a year, but his past 2 fights in 18months prior saw the following performances:

Duran - wide wide UD against a Duran coming off a win over Barkley
Hearns - draw that was really a close loss against an ATG

Now Norris dominated Leonard, if Norris wasn't quite as good, say an average to good belt holder or decent young basic fighter such as a Lalonde, Barkley or Davey Moore, then Leonard probably would have won.

But Norris was a truly ATG talent who would give any version of Leonard nightmares with his ability.

 

Red Ill use a better more pertinent piece of evidence...watching the Norris fight.

You talk as though these fights were right after on another...Leonard-Norris was 4 years after the Hagler fight, close to 2 years after the Hearns fight and over year after the Duran fight.
Which Ray looked ok in because Roberto looked terrible and I know you are going to say "but but the Barkley fight"..Well that was a draining war against a young fighter and Roberto put it all on the line in that one for one last great performance..He did not appear the same fighter almost a year later when he fought Ray and lets face it Roberto was inconsistent at the higher weights. Thats what he did, he would have a great performance then lose focus, train poorly and allow his advanced age to have a greater effect on him.

Ray fought Norris after coming back from like his 3rd retirement...Terry was young and approaching his prime..Ray left his behind years ago.

Regarding the Hagler fight..again it was 4 years earlier, Hagler wasnt at his peak anymore and struggling to overcome injuries (as the Mugabi fight indicated) and it is also a fight that his hotly debated. I truly struggle to see has that has any significance regarding Ray's peformance against Norris.

 

Leonard would have buried Norris in his prime. :good

 

The only problem with your claim Robbi is that I have proof on my side. You don't and never will. Seen John Thomas lately?

:hi:

 

:huh

You have surely ****ed yourself now, it was bound to happen when discussing Leonard.



Botswana :smoke