Thad Spencer 'Whats a Guy Have to do get a Shot at Clay'

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Senor Pepe', Aug 15, 2012.


  1. Lord Tywin

    Lord Tywin Guest

    Sure Ali was scared of Amos Lincoln in 65. The same guy who had just gone life and death with Roberto Davila, showing no skill at all. And dont start claiming Davila was something special because he wasnt despite making Lincoln eat punch after punch after punch.

    And what had Spencer done in 65 that made anyone think he would be a threat to Ali?

    The fact is that neither had done squat by 1965 and yet you want to paint them as being more worthy than a former two time heavyweight champion who was one of the most beloved sporting figures of the era who was painted as the hero to Alis villain by the press and who had set that fight up by easily beating Eddie Machen and then beating George Chuvalo in the fight of the year.

    The Patterson-Ali fight was what everyone wanted to see. It made financial sense, it had a story, and it had a worthy challenger who had a good reputation and a proven track record. None of those things can be said about Spencer or Lincoln in 1965 and yet you want to paint it somehow as Ali ducked them.

    Whatever, go back to reading your daddys magazines and trying to cobble together some revisionist unwritten history.
     
  2. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Can we not keep it civil Gents?
     
  3. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dunno if you missed my post (see post 38) or you are ignoring it but i'll repeat my question,

    why do you keep refering to him cassius clay?
     
  4. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    John Maff,,,,,

    Cassius Clay was Cassius Clay (1942 thru 1967).

    Every news organization, newsman, journalist and media used his proper name.

    Look at the magazines and news paper articles, Cassius Clay.

    Did you know he was 'Cassius X' before Muhammad Ali.
     
  5. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    That was my thought. When your sources start calling him Ali I'm sure you will Pepe....I think!
     
  6. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lord Tywin,,,,,,

    One Word,,,,,,,,,,,,Brian London

    'Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel'.

    Please, tell us all how you can defend that one.

    Brian London was deemed 'unfit' to fight for the European Heavyweight
    Championship in 1962 "For God's Sake".

    Please don't try and tell us that Brian London was better than Thad Spencer or Amos Lincoln in mid-1966.

    Because Brian London wasn't better than anyone...:deal
     
  7. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The idea of Ali being scared of ANYONE is laughable,in my opinion. :lol: His resume speaks for itself.
     
  8. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Flea Man,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,You Get It.........:good
     
  9. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I have to admit that even though I've been a fan of Ali's since the second Henry Cooper fight in 1966,I was still referring to him as Cassius Clay up untill 1970 or so. Obviously it was n't meant in a derogatory way. Purely because I was used to the name 'Cassius Clay'
     
  10. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Monday Night - February 21, 1966

    Civic Auditorium - Santa Monica, California

    Attendance; 2500

    22 year-old Heavyweight - Thad Spencer (now of San Francisco) escaped with
    6-Round Technical Decision win over New York 'journeyman' Heavyweight Billy 'The Barber' Daniels.

    Spencer (195 lbs.), now 29-4-0 and the #8 WBA Heavyweight, started off in his
    usual fast and hard-punching style, winning the first 3-rounds, by landing his
    lead right-hand, rocking the 28 year-old New Yorker.

    But, Spencer did not espace, as he had suffered a cut left-eye by an 'accidental'
    head-butt in the 2nd-Round.

    In Round 4, Spencer was in control, until Billy Daniels backed-up Thad with a right hand,
    then landed a long left hook as Spencer pulled back, dropping Thad on the seat of his
    pants. Spencer took the '9-Count', before resuming in a 'defensive posture'.

    Spencer re-gained control in Round 5, again using his right hand leads, and counter
    left jabs.

    But, in Round 6, Daniels (192 lbs.) opened up with long-range right hands, that further
    damaged the jagged-cut left eye.

    At the end of Round 6, Referee - Bob Mitchell, on the advide of the 'ringside physician'
    called a halt to the bout.

    In the confusion, Billy Daniels and his corner celebrated, thinking that their fighter had
    just won by a TKO stoppage.

    But, Willie Ketchum, (Thad Spencer's manager) protested to the local boxing officials,
    stating that the cut-eye was a result of an earlier head-butt, not a punch.

    After 15-minutes of discussion, the officials determined that they must go to the
    scorecards to determine the official winner.

    Scorecards;
    Referee - Bob Mitchell.........3-2-1
    Judge - Jack Silva..............4-2-0
    Judge - Vern Bybee............4-2-0

    All scores were registered for Thad Spencer, who was then awarded a 6-Round
    Technical Decision win.

    Billy Daniels who saw his record drop to 20-11-1, 'I thought I won by a TKO, but this
    is his backyard, so I guess I just have to accept it. It isn't the first time I have been jived, and
    it won't be the last time.'

    Thad Spencer, 'I won 4 of the first 5 rounds easy, but the cut got real bad in the 6th and I
    couldn't see. Billy fought well, but I was in complete control until the cut got bad. It's just
    one of those things.'

    Willie Ketchum, 'The rules state that if a cut is a result of head-butt, you have to go to the
    scorecards. That is the only fair way for both fighters. Thad was well on his way to a win,
    and everybody in the auditorium saw it as a fair decision by the officials.'
     
  11. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    February 22, 1966

    Cassius Clay, was for all purposes,,,,,,,,,,,'Cassius Clay'

    Amos Lincoln, 'It looks like Clay isn't going to fight Ernie Terrell. Here I am waiting
    for a phone call to fight him. I was supposed to be next, like he said, and now I here
    he's going to Canada to fight Chuvalo. I guess if I was a 'Black Canadian' who couldn't fight,
    I would be next.'

    Amos Lincoln, 'I will still fight a tune-up on March 3, 1966 (vs. Billy Daniels), then I'll be
    ready for March 29th if he wants me. The word going around, is he doesn't want to fight
    anyone who can punch or give him a fight, so I guess I'm out.'

    Cassius Clay later said he was 'sorry' to Amos Lincoln.

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  12. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    its my understanding he changed his name after Liston 1 and before Liston 2, which you know is well before 67.

    Also, what does the 'kid clay' mean at the top of some of your posts?

    And yes, i did know he was 'cassius x'
     
  13. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    April 3, 1966

    Willie Ketchum, 'We're going to England, to try and chase Clay down. We here his team
    is going to the United Kingdom, to fight the Top 3 British Heavyweights. Well, I've
    talked to Mickey Duff, and we're on our way. Hopefully he doesn't get picked off
    before Thad gets a hold of him.'

    Willie Ketchum, 'The truth is, Cassius Clay is broke, and he needs to go to England to get
    some money, and fast. I understand that he can make '5-times' as much fighting the
    British Boys instead of fighting us. That's part of this business, but eventually he'll have
    to fight someone good.'

    Thad Spencer, 'My eye has healed, and I'm ready to go to England. We're supposed to fight
    the Top British Heavyweight, that big lefty Bodell in 2-weeks.'
     
  14. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Monday Night - April 18, 1966

    Kings Hall Belle Vue, Manchester

    Attendance; 5000

    American Heavyweight - 23 year-old - Thad Spencer battered Top British
    Heavyweight 'prospect' 25 year-old - Jack Bodell for 2-Rounds, forcing
    the Referee Billy Jones to call a halt to the one-sided massacre at the
    end of the 2nd-round.

    Spencer from San Francisco, California is the #7 WBA Heavyweight, and is regarded as having
    the fastest hands in the Heavyweight Division. The 6' 0" 197 lb. boxer, took control of the
    bout immediately, and had the 6' 2" 197 lb. southpaw Bodell retreating.

    Spencer opened up a 1" gash under the right eye-lid of the British Heavyweight, and battered Bodell
    throughout. Spencer had too much power for the awkward southpaw, as he repeatedly landed
    hard left hooks to the right side of the Bodells' head.

    Referee Billy Jones walked over to Jack Bodell's corner at the end of Round 2, and waved it off.

    Thad Spencer who improves to 30-4-0 (14 KO's), is here in England looking to challenge
    Champion, American - Cassius Clay.

    Jack Bodell who had won 20 of his previous 21 bouts, was regarded as the Top British Heavyweight,
    falls to 35-7-0.

    World Heavyweight Champion - Cassius Clay also arrived here Monday {April 18} to begin training
    for his schedeuled bout with Henry Cooper on May 21.

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  15. Longsoldier

    Longsoldier Adam Heach Full Member

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    I am Adam Heach, the author of the aforementioned book, "The Name of the Game: Thad Spencer, Willie Ketchum and The Quest for the Heavyweight Championship of the World." The book hasn't officially launched yet. Currently I am making minor revisions. It should be available mid-September from Amazon and the usual outlets.

    Senor Pepe certainly knows his stuff. He has some details I wasn't aware of, especially regarding the Shirley Pembelton fight. I wasn't aware Spencer sparred for Sonny Liston. Three time Spencer foe, Amos Lincoln, was Liston's regular spar partner.

    Thad Spencer was a talented fighter, but extremely flawed human being. Despite his natural talents, in the end his ring resume of major accomplishments reads very thin. In the year leading up to the WBA elimination tourney in 1967, following his near shutout victory over former #1 ranked contender Doug Jones, manager and trainer Willie Ketchum had Thad in superb shape, mentally and physically. However, Ketchum kept Thad on a short leash, in anticipation of a title tiff with champion Muhammad Ali, a fight which was destined never to happen. It was a fight Thad sacrificed much for. For this reason, a scheduled fight with former champion Floyd Patterson fell through. That would have been an extremely attractive fight, a close contest I believe Thad would have won, and a result which would have solidified his reputation as a major player in the heavyweight ranks.

    The rest is speculation, of course, but the kind of shape Spencer was in for the Ernie Terrell fight was the kind of shape he would have been in for a heavyweight title showdown with Ali, and that would have made for a very interesting encounter. Champion Ali would surely have prevailed, but had Thad managed to cut the ring on the fleet footed Ali, he would I believe have kept it close. As much as I admire Jerry Quarry, had the Bellflower slugger been Thad’s foe instead of Terrell in the first round of the WBA tourney, it would have been a very lopsided bout in favor of Spencer. For that one night, Willie and Thad had all the pieces of the puzzle together. All speculation, of course. Money and fame, as well as cocaine, were the other opiates that ruined Spencer, and given his disadvantaged background, once he tasted them, he fell apart.