Thad Spencer 'Whats a Guy Have to do get a Shot at Clay'

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Senor Pepe', Aug 15, 2012.


  1. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I simply can't understand the continuity of this thread. Is it Thad deserved a shot at the title? I agree, at some point. 65? No quality wins. 67? If Ali hadn't been banned he probably would have fought Thad, at least by the fall of 67 and would have been brutally stopped hanging over the ropes by the 7th or 8th round. As it turned out, he had his (ONLY) big win against an aging Terrell in the late summer of that year and couldn't win ANY of his next nine fights before retiring.
    What am I missing here?
     
  2. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    It only takes 'one night' to defeat somebody, not a whole career.

    Thad Spencer, in 1967, had the tools and the experience to handle Cassius Clay.

    Very fast hands, a good left hook to the body, and a very quick right hand.

    His weakness, scar-tissue over his left eye. And, somewhat predictable in his attack.

    Would he have defeated Cassius Clay, I have no idea.

    But did he deserve a title shot, after being promised one,,,,,,absolutely yes.

    He still did something that the Champion - Cassius Clay couldn't do. He dropped
    Ernie Terrell with one-punch, and wobbled him several other times.

    And, they both fought Ernie Terrell in 1967, and only 6-months apart.

    For 'one-night' in a period of time, Thad Spencer was 'within-a-whisker'.
     
  3. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Round 10

    Thad Spencer stalked, as Terrell circled away. Terrell forces his way inside and backs Spencer
    into a 'neutral corner'. At the 0:48 Mark, Terrell lands a hard left hook below Spencer's belt-line.
    Terrell is warned by Referee, Jimmy Webb.

    Spencer then takes control by landing left hooks to the body, which are taking their toll on the
    'ambling giant'. Spencer stays the agressor by moving forward. Ernie Terrell in an attempt to swing
    the round, gets very rough, by holding and hitting Spencer behind the head. The crowd boo's
    and calls Terrell 'a bum'.

    Spencer continues to bore in, sliding under Terrell's jabs, while landing short punches to the body.

    At the 2:03 Mark, Spencer lands a hard right-hand, and continues to bore in, looking for an opening
    as Terrell circles.

    Terrell in a attempt to keep Spencer off him, whips a right-hand bolo-punch to Spencer's cup
    at the 2:29 Mark, causing Referee Jimmy Webb, to warn Terrell again.

    Spencer pressures Terrell over the last 25-secinds, who is tiring badly from the body punches.

    Referee Jimmy Webb deducts 2-points from Ernie Terrell for low-blows.

    For all purposes, the loss of Round 10 and the 2-point foul deduction, puts Terrell hopelessly
    behind on all the scorecards.


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  4. Lord Tywin

    Lord Tywin Guest

    So now Spencer had the tools to handle Ali in 1967? Sure.

    You still didnt answer Jowcools question. What is your overall point. Did Thad Spencer deserve a shot at Ali? Did Ali duck him? Do you honestly believe he would have beaten Ali? Dont give me some devils advocate answer about "had all of the planets aligned Spencer would have won." Im asking point blank do you honestly believe Thad Spencer anytime in 1967 beats Ali. I dont care if he knocked down Terrell, who hadnt fought since Ali and was coming off a dominant loss. I want to know your answer.

    Oh and for the record, Ali did something Spencer couldnt do either, he dominated Terrell easily. No judge gave Terrell more than 2 rounds of the fifteen and the AP gave Terrell only 1 round. Terrell was ahead going in to the tenth (despite suffering a flash knockdown in the second) when he was penalized two points for low blows, which even Spencer admitted afterwards were accidental. Spencer suffered a cut under his left eye and ate many jabs all night.
     
  5. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    "Thad Spencer Wins Unanimous Decision Over Ernie Terrell"

    Scorecards;
    Referee, Jimmy Webb.......118-110
    Judge, Ernie Taylor..........118-110
    Judge, Chris Jordan..........116-110

    Thad Spencer was awarded a 10-8 score in Round 2, after scoring a knockdown.

    Ernie Terrell had 2-points deducted from him in Round 10 by
    Referee, Jimmy Webb - for '4' low-blows.

    ABC-TV (Howard Cosell) scored the bout 115-109 for Thad Spencer.


    Willkie Ketchum and Chickie Ferrera worked the corner for Thad Spencer.

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  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I believe the one-sided thrashing Ali administered to Terrell finished him as a worldclass fighter and ,think his subsequent results bear this out.
    Ernie was a significantly diminished fighter when he fought Spencer ,imo,and therefore I think the result flattered Spencer somewhat.
     
  7. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    I don't see the significance of this. There doesn't seem to be any record of Ali or his people agreeing to the idea, and Duff himself was just a promoter (actually I think at the time he was working as a matchmaker for Harry Levene). He may well have been interested in arranging the bout but he was in no position to promise anyone a title shot.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Mickey Duff was indeed Harry Levene's match maker,though Levene made the main bouts himself. Duff's dealing with Ali came through Chris Dundee out of Miami. in 1967 Duff was an employee of Levene and ,as you say ,in no position to offer Ali anything.
     
  9. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Ernie's diminished skills, based on conjecture,

    Before the bout, Ernie was a 2-1 Betting favorite in Las Vegas.
    Also, Cassius Clay had predicted that Ernie would win the tournament,
    stating that he was the best all-around boxer entered.

    Ernie was in good shape (214 lbs.), and there was no indication that
    he had lost anything at 28 years of age.

    His bout with Cassius Clay was in February 1967, 6-months earlier -
    so Terrell had more than enough time to recupperate. Ernie also
    had 6-weeks of training camp, before the August 5th bout.

    The truth, once Thad floored Ernie in the 2nd-Round, he took his
    confidence away. And the hard left hooks to the body, wore Ernie
    down in Round 8 and especially in Round 9.

    Nobody had ever done that to 'Big Ernie' before, at least during his
    prime years.
     
  10. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ernie was psychologically crushed after his fight with Muhammad.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    As his subsequent results prove.:good
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Terrell had eye damage after the Ali fight, and spent some time hospitalized ,he was never a real force again.

    Betting favourite ? What does that mean?

    Ali was an 8/1 outsider when he fought Liston.
    Terrell ,no puncher floored Spencer and, without the deductions for low blows, may have won the fight,how many rounds did Terrell win against Ali?

    Your case for Ali, avoiding Spencer/Spencer being given the runaround, is so thin it is transparent
     
  13. Lord Tywin

    Lord Tywin Guest

    Actually Ernie was not a 2-1 favorite. He may have been given those odds somewhere, but he was most often quoted at a 3 to 5 or 5 to 8 favorite.
     
  14. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    No,

    Ernie would 'not' have won the fight with a 'scored knockdown' in Rouind 5, and the
    loss of a 2-point deduction in Round 10.

    Referee, Jimmy Webb and Judge, Ernie Taylor had the bout scored 68-67 for Thad Spencer at the of the 7th Round,

    Then they scored Rounds 8 thru 12 for Thad, giving him a 118-110 points win.

    Scorecards of Referee - Jimmy Webb and Judge - Ernie Taylor;

    Rounds............1.....2......3....4.....5.....6....7.....8.....9....10....11....12......Total
    =============================================================
    Thad Spencer...10 - 10 - 10 - 10 - 9.....9 - 10 - 10 - 10 - 10....10 - 10.... = 118
    Ernie Terrell......10 - 8 -- 10 - 10 -10....10 -10 -- 9 -- 9 -- 7......9 -- 9..... = 110


    ABC-TV (Howard Cosell), scored the bout at Ringside. His scoring below;

    After 5-Rounds......47 - 47 ----- (Even)
    After 7-Rounds......67 - 65 ----- (Ernie Terrell)
    After 9-Rounds......85 - 85 ----- (Even)
    After 11-Rounds....105 - 100 --- (Thad Spencer)
    Final Scorecard.....115 - 109 --- (Thad Spencer)

    Howard Cosell scored Round 5 {10-8} for Ernie Terrell, as he awarded Terrell the flash-knockdown.
     
  15. Lord Tywin

    Lord Tywin Guest

    The AP had Terrell ahead going in to the 10th. Anyone who watches that fight can see it was closer than what the three blind mice had it.