The 10 Greatest Bantamweights

Good read! I think highly of Ortiz (as do you from the write up), and was hoping to see him around the 4 spot. You make a good case, and I will have to reread it later when I have more time.

From 42-50 he had a run like very few ever. Looking forward to the unveiling of the top 5

 

Good write-up on Ortiz whom I’d consider arguably the greatest fighter to come from Los Angeles. His record doesn’t particularly look glossy on paper because like Dick Tiger he had a lot of early losses as he was learning his trade but by the time he was a champion he was the total package hence his title record.

His title numbers are among the most impressive in history and I do tend to give some great fighters who dominated for long stretches the benefit of the doubt and assume they probably stopped an opponent or two from being great. As you say Ortiz’ list isn’t a star studded one but it’s a solid one.

His overall standing as a fighter is probably affected by so many non-title losses during his prime years but that’s more common of the era even though it’s definately relevant when measuring and comparing greatness though as you say a lot of those bots were over the limit so don’t really affect his standing at Bantamweight.

I’d personally have Ortiz in my own top 5 most likely but I’d not feel right having him ahead of Jofre or Olivares. You make strong cases for him being above Zarate and Brown though which I personally wouldn’t have thought I’d do off the top of my head.

 

Another superb write-up even if I do disagree with the placement. You make justifiable points about missing out on a victory over a great fighter at the weight though but I still consider Jofre the standard bearer for the division. I sort of view Chavez in a similar way on a p4p scale in that he never defeated one “great fighter” but his skill, dominance and style was such that it’s clear he’s ahead of guys who perhaps have a glossier win or two and due to that dominance and consistency perhaps stopped a guy or two from becoming great themselves.

I really wish there was more footage available on some of the guys Jofre beat on the way up. Ernesto Miranda would be ideal but also Roberto Castro and Jose Smecca also. Their records appear solid. The Filipinos Leo Espinosa and Danny Kid too. Man, you really had to earn a title shot in those days.

Fair point on missing Becerra which is unfortunate. Becerra would have made for a great fight probably a classic but from my understanding he was never the same fighter mentally after he’d killed Walt Ingram (even though he scored a great win vs. Halmini after that). I’ve got a friend who’s a huge Becerra fan and was looking to interview up until Becerra died two years ago. Not much is known about his early retirement and whilst Sanchez had an average looking record (much like Herman Marques) he’d been matched basically with nothing but tough guys winning some and losing some.

 

Flea, I've been absolutely loving your entire piece on the bantams. Of course we all disagree on some of their placements, but that is to be expected with fight fans. But reading the piece on Manuel Ortiz had me thinking. I know an elder statesman boxing fan who swears Ortiz was the #1 bantam of all time. I have him rated in the 10-15th group. After watching his fight with Luis Castillo I am even more confident in that placing of Ortiz. I muttered to myself that he looked like he had 6" on Castillo. A quick stat check showed that Castillo was 4'11" to Ortiz' 5'4", and yet, Ortiz fought him on the inside despite having ridiculous advantages in height and reach. Now this is attributable to the times I believe more than anything. There were no TV monies coming in and there generally was no contracted purse. They were fighting for a piece of the gate and if you were not entertaining, you weren't asked back. This attrition style did suit Ortiz, but it made an easy fight difficult. Ortiz was neither puncher nor boxer, he was a fighter and was always going to be fighting in the trenches - unnecessary as it was. But I think it would be suicide against a Zarate or Olivares who would find that style very accommodating.

 

Sorry Flea Man. I enjoy your posts even when I disagree with them as I can learn a thing or two.

Jofre at #5? A terrible call as he's viewed as a #1 or #2 by most. Just a guess you're giving Harda a pedestal to stand on, Jofre was past his best and had issues making weight for the Harda fights. Terry McGovern is going to be shafted.

 

Once again a solid researched read that was not only enjoyable but very informative.

I will leave it to other posters to tell you whether or not this is terrible or not, but I am a bit surprised by his placement...but then again not for the first time in this series.

I seldom see him placed here, but that does not make one right or another wrong. They are all opinions at the end of the day, and make for good discussion even if there are disagreements.

I am looking forward to continuing this series, and learning a bit more. When all is said and done (well Yogi Bera said “when all is said and done there is nothing left to do or say” lol), I will sit back and weigh what I have learned against what I thought I knew/believed and try again.

Either way keep on writing