I think Herman beat better bantams than Jofre. That’s about enough for me, although as I said before you’re splitting hairs up here, and as I showed in the article (I hope!) Herman’s reign was a particularly tricky one to weigh up anyway. Contemporary reports seem to come round to him in the end, so I think we should too. He was no ‘cheese champ’! I also found retrospective articles (while Herman was still active by the way) that spoke about the 3rd Kid Williams fight and how cries of a robbery had always been unjustified. So I think it was one of ‘those’ fights. So Herman went 2-1-1 with a top 10 bantam (on my list) as well as beating many other quality bantams, regained the title against an excellent bantam, and avenged the only stoppage loss of his career in a 20-round championship fight. EDIT: Also the NWS are an issue, but of course Herman tended to coast in these. I didn’t take any credit off of Jofre for those ‘Brazilian’ draws, Herman’s losses in NWS are certainly worse than those, but enough contemporary reports were skewed on it that I didn’t see it as a knock on his legacy, especially as he tended to turn it up when it mattered. I was at peace with ranking him above Jofre, Ortiz and Harada in the end.
I admire this, I really do. That being said I've found over the years the way I view the sport has diverged greatly from those who compile such lists. I used to be obsessed with things such as resume and linearity and I found through that hard pursuit of data it became more of a chore for me to follow boxing. So I made a conscious uncoupling with the objective side of the sport and decided to fully embrace the subjective side of things. I'm no longer as interested in "who beat who" as I am in "who would beat who" With that in mind my lists are entirely h2h based. On a mythical attribute of winnability in a mythical gauntlet of time defying peers. I find it more objective this way. If I wanna see how good Orlando Canizales is, I just watch him fight and watch some other BW guys fight and make a judgement call based on my gut. No hard data involved. But I go back to my point, I admire this. I enjoy reading articles such as this, so great work my man. Great work indeed.
I just read it and really enjoyed this one. Thoroughly researched and excellently written with a ton of insight and information I’d not previously known much about. I’d heard that KO of Wilde was particularly violent with Wilde landing on his head and basically being finished because of that fight. Do you have any timeframe on when you think your Wilde book will come to print? As far as Herman’s ranking you make an excellent case and I’ve generally listed him around that 3-6 mark myself.
Really glad you enjoyed it. My issue with the Wilde book is that I have yet to go to Wales. I don’t think I’ll find much (for reasons I explain in the book) but I have to look at a certain few Welsh newspapers not held in the British library. So I am ‘hoping’ (fingers crossed!) for 2020. Thanks for your kind words on the Herman piece. Certainly an interesting fighter to weigh up.
Did you ever read the books on Wilde previously released? I was looking on amazon but they were a little steep. I want to find a good book on that early 20th century era of Welsh boxing. I went to Wales for Calzaghe-Kessler. What a night! I’m from the UK but moved to Los Angeles a decade ago. I get what your saying though it’s definately a hard one to research.
Wow! Didn’t know that you were writing a book on Wilde...I would be very interested and among the first to purchase a copy!
Herman at #3 was a bit of a surprise ( never saw him that high ), but sort of expected given who's left. Based on Lynch beating Herman twice, you can argue he deserves a spot in your top ten under your criteria, but I'd leave him out being that only two spots are left. Olivares is too good not to make the top ten, and his name has not been called. My guess is he's #1. As for #2, whomever you pick is going to need a great write up given the names he's placed over. McGovern would be your safest pick with wins over Dixon ( KO ) and Palmer.