The 12 Fighters In Boxing History Who Made The Ring's #1 PFP Spot

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by NewBoxingOrder, Sep 27, 2017.


  1. FastSmith7

    FastSmith7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I love Bud, really. But you're right, Jacobs and Canelo are a lot better than anyone Crawford has fought, Canelo was an easy win for GGG and Jacobs was a very close fight but GGG won.
     
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  2. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

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    With 146 unofficial votes tallied for the GGG-Canelo 1 bout, only 9 people felt that Canelo won the fight. That's about 6% of the votes.

    Two of them are Canelo's promoters.

    Five others are of Latino heritage (as is Canelo).

    One other used to work for Fight Hype (never a bastion of GGG support).

    About 80% of respondents felt GGG won the fight.

    Thus, if a pound-for-pound voter believes that Golovkin won the fight but did not get the official nod, it would be pretty easy for that voter to have Golovkin as the top PFP fighter. Particularly given who GGG was fighting (another top boxer).
     
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  3. qwertyblahblah

    qwertyblahblah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He aged so much that he couldn't handle Jacobs movement... yet it doesn't matter, he would've in his prime, he's the best! He aged so much that he couldn't handle Canelo's timing, accuracy, and defence, nor did his vaunted power dent Canelo... yet it doesn't matter, he would've in his prime, he's the best! We can ignore the fact that the skills and strengths of p4p elites Lomachenko, Crawford, Garcia, Rigondeux, Inoue have never been nullified like Golovkin's have recently been, because no it doesn't matter, GGG's the best! And that those boxers haven't recently had a disputed fight but have dominated, because no it doesn't matter, GGG's the best! And despite the Canelo fight being close and Canelo being a proven skilled elite we can laugh with joy that Ring mag has Canelo not a spot or two but five spots below Golovkin, and look at Ring as a credible authority.

    :facepalm: Wow, GGG fans.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  4. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Even though you are being sarcastic, you are correct. The decline in GGG's ability seemed truly first evident in the Brook bout, which took place when GGG was 34 years old.

    For comparison's sake, Marvin Hagler retired at age 32 and Andre Ward said his body could no longer handle the sport at age 33.

    If you have watched GGG's career and understand the aging process for athletes, all of this is elementary. I am in my mid-40's and know what aging does to an athlete.

    Here is what Jacobs said before he fought GGG (that bout took place right after GGG-Brook). I can't link the site but here's the quote.

    This content is protected


    Jacobs saw what everyone else saw in the GGG-Brook fight. And, as I mentioned above, people started feeling like they might actually have a chance against GGG after they watched him fight Brook.

    Until then, for years, numerous fighters wanted nothing to do with Golovkin. Including Canelo, who dropped the WBC belt in May 2016 rather than face GGG.

    GGG-Brook took place in September 2016. And that bout, along with the GGG-Jacobs fight, helped Canelo find his courage to finally meet GGG in the ring.

    This is all basic. Nobody wanted anything to do with GGG (except Brook, and credit to him) until September 2016 and Golovkin was 34 years old.

    Prime Golovkin would annihilate Canelo. Jacobs might still last the fight with Prime Golovkin, but that has more to do with Jacobs' athletic ability than any deficiency in GGG's skills.

    My guess is Jacobs does not last the entire fight against Prime Golovkin. But if Jacobs really got on his bike and stayed there for the whole fight -- and he came in at like 180 pounds as he did to help his punch resistance -- maybe he lasts the entire bout. But he would be knocked down (as he was), and probably multiple times.

    Golovkin is the truth. Anyone who can't see that, particularly as regards Prime Golovkin, just doesn't understand the sport.

    Even Atlas -- The King Of All Golovkin Haters -- understood the reality after he watched GGG-Canelo.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
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  5. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    Golovkin beat both of those guys so obviously he could handle what they gave him. I don't see what the big deal is that he didn't completely dismantle them. They were both elite level fighters and he beat them by an inch or a mile. If Lomachenko or Crawford ever face somebody like that they'll have a competitive fight too. But right now, they are all beating B level fighters like Golovkin used to knock out in 3 rounds and look fantastic against. P4p lists aren't just about looking fantastic against lower level fighters. If Lomachenko or Garcia want that top spot they need to fight each other. Take a risk like GGG did and fight a big dog.

    I don't agree with Rings decision to make GGG #1 either, but at least they are being consistent. They put Ward at #1 after losing back to back fights against Kovalev because he got the W. Now, they are giving the spot to GGG despite some close fights because nobody else is fighting at that level and achieving as much. They are just going off of the official resume. I think it's a little dumb, but it has it's own appreciable logic.
     
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  6. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Let's see how Lomachenko and Crawford look when they are 34-35 years old.

    GGG is post-prime now. So you have a guy beyond his best years taking on top talent and still winning. And, to even go further, he's fighting guys who outweigh him on fight night.

    That pretty much says it all.

    I don't think there is any doubt now that Golovkin will be in the Hall Of Fame. 19 consecutive defenses, only one of 12 men to ever make Ring Magazine PFP #1 in 28 years.

    He's done everything. The end is near, but he's clearly made his mark.
     
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  7. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Plenty of guys wanted Golovkin. Lara at 154 and Ward at 168. But GGG wouldn't give up a size advantage to face Ward at 168.
    He chose to chase smaller guy Canelo instead at a time when he has Zero fights at Middle weight. Canelo wasn't waiting on GGG to reach 35 , he was waiting until he grew and adapted into the weight.
    Thats why GGG and his stupid fanboys were so desperate to get Canelo at 154 cos they knew he'd be better at 160.

    Its like this - the first world level opponent Golovkin ever faced made him look old. Nobody said Jacobs had a hope before the fight and nobody said Golovkin was past his best. He was still at the top of his game to everybody going into that fight. If GGG looked poor its because Jacobs MADE him look poor , which he did.

    Look at it this way - Kurtside didn't look at all 38 when he blew threw young , prime unbeaten Tommy Langford this year but if he had went and fought Saunders he would have suddenly looked 48.
    Its all about level in this sport..34 isn't old in this day and age , especially when a guy had relatively easy career like G did.
    Golovkin is a C and D level killer . Above that he's ordinary. Them the cold , hard facts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
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  8. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Funny how nobody is claiming Kovalev is past prime at 34 , or Stevenson at 40. Or Rigo at 38. Or Floyd at 39..The list goes on an on.

    Excuses are only for sad sacks also known as Golovturds - the worst groupies since Paquaio fans - if not worse.
     
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  9. qwertyblahblah

    qwertyblahblah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm not denying that Golovkin has likely declined a bit. Chalking that up as the major reason he had difficulty with Jacobs and Canelo is wrong however. That he had that kind of trouble the first time he stepped up with top opposition means you have no proof to say he wouldn't have had at least similar trouble against them at any time in his career. But I'm not here to have the debate, it's been gone over so much, and you're obviously a true believer and aren't going to be convinced.

    I'm just saying if you think these fights were close only because he's declined, that he's declined should mean he might not be the best boxer in the world! If you want to say he deserved close but clear decisions over Jacobs and Canelo and is as good as ever and the best boxer in the world, I don't agree, but ok. But if you think he's no longer at his best that has to factor into his current p4p level. Not entertaining his current level and consequential relative drawbacks to prime elites like Loma, Crawford, Inoue, Garcia is either blind fanboyism, media conformism, or misses the point of p4p, which is about skill and dominance. Perhaps you should ask Carl Froch who you refer to as an authority on GGG why he rates Lomachenko as the best p4p.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
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  10. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm not a true believer, I'm a realist. I've seen a good portion of GGG's career and I know what he can do at his best and how he has declined since then.

    I have a tremendous amount of respect for Jacobs (and I like him), which is why I said he might actually make the whole fight against Prime GGG. That's a big compliment, given that Jacobs was the first guy to reach the end of a GGG scheduled-12-round bout in 21 such career GGG bouts.

    GGG is a destroyer. But he's not a brute. He's tremendously skilled. That's what makes him so deadly.

    A brute is someone like Lemieux. Huge power, but lacks some basic skills.

    Prime GGG had everything, except top-level speed and movement. But it didn't matter, because of his pressure and ability to cut off the ring. And because of his chin. He would find you, trap you, and take you out. No one could stop that.

    Because of Jacobs' size, power and athletic ability, he may have been able to get on the bike and last 12 rounds. Even against Prime GGG. But he's not going to win the fight. Not unless he has Canelo's judges, anyways. He's going to be on defense the whole time trying to hold off the monster.

    I think Lampley said that what he saw in GGG-Canelo is that GGG can't cut off the ring and trap guys like he once did. I agree. If he could, Canelo does not last 8 rounds. Canelo would have zero chance against Prime GGG. No chance. He doesn't have the physical attributes needed (as Jacobs does have) to be able to survive.

    Canelo is a tremendous fighter. He's improved an enormous amount. But he's not at GGG's level, at least not as a middleweight. That's not a knock on Canelo, it's just that he's probably ideally made to be more of a 154 guy given his physical attributes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
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  11. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ward wanted GGG, sure. At 168 pounds. And even then there did seem to be hesitation for Ward at least once as regards GGG.

    And it's true, Lara did seem to want GGG. I'll give him credit, also. As Brook deserves credit.

    But I'm mostly talking about middleweights.

    Sturm ----------> Avoided GGG
    Geale -----------> Avoided GGG
    Martinez --------> Avoided GGG

    And so forth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
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  12. qwertyblahblah

    qwertyblahblah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Good job proving my point, in describing how great you think Golovkin was in his prime. How about carefully evaluate how good Golovkin is now, and check out the guys I mentioned, Lomachenko, Crawford, Garcia, Inoue. Those guys are better not in a fantasy past, but in 2017.
     
  13. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Here's what people need to understand about GGG and Jacobs, and just GGG overall.

    Jacobs is 6' 1" and was probably like 178-180 pounds on fight night. He has a 73" reach (GGG is 70") and is very athletic and mobile. He deliberately skipped the second-day weigh-in to try to gain even more mass for the bout.

    Jacobs came into the GGG fight on a 12-fight, 6-year T/KO win streak. He was a champion. He was 32-1 (29). Knockout artist. Prime of his career. He was fighting an over-the-hill version of GGG.

    What happened?

    The small, old guy forced Jacobs -- the larger man with very heavy hands -- onto his bike after Jacobs got sent to the canvas.

    People need to appreciate what GGG is and has been. No one can stand with him and win. Your only hope is to face a Past Prime version of him, be larger than him on fight night, and get on your bike. Just to survive. And that's not even talking about trying to win the fight.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  14. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

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    They are not better, which is why both Ring and ESPN have GGG ranked above them.

    Golovkin will be out of the top spot soon, though. There's no doubt about that. He's fading.
     
  15. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    Nobody is saying that? Everybody is saying that.