The 20 greatest fighters, pre World War One. Gloved Era. No honourable mentions!

What about Norman Selby, a.k.a. "Kid McCoy"?

 

Arranged by weight class:


Paperweight/Bantemweight

Jim Barry


Bantemweight

Terry McGovern


Featherweight

George Dixon

Young Griffo

Jem Driscoll

Abe Atelle


Lightweight

Joe Gans

Jack McAuliffe

Dave Holly


Welterweight

Joe Walcott

Tommy Ryan

Billy Smith


Middleweight

Bob Fitzsimmons

Stan Ketchel


Miscelaneousweight (the twilight zone between heavy and light heavy that existed then)

Sam Langford

Joe Choynski

Jeff Clark


Heavyweight

Jawn L

Jim Jeffries

Jack Johnson

 

I was explaining why I left him off. According to the old Ring Record Book, he started his career in 1911 and had more fights and most of his important fights after June 1914. Harry Wills was older and started his career earlier, according to the Ring Record Book.

Wilde was champion from 1916 to 1923.

And my cut off criteria for such a list is pretty arbitrary, I concede.

 

Would have thought that Jim Driscoll, Abe Attell and Young Griffo would all feature before Owen Moran.

 

You are correct. I was going to put Attell and Griffo on, but somehow forgot. I guess it was an old fart moment. Oh well, too late to edit.

 

I know a fair deal of Smith and Nelson, Nelson moreso, but Lavigne has always just been a name i see in record books really. If its not too much trouble Janitor, i wouldnt mind you elaborating a bit (you offered!). I know you're really knowledgeable of the era, and it would be for my benefit. Thanks in advance.

 

O dear lord, Dave Holly and jack McAulliffe over Jack Blackburn???

Blackburn won the series with Holly, I used to have 4 online newspaper prints of some of there fights and blackburn clearly held the upperhand and was considered the better of the two. Blackburn also beat better fighters than holly did, and was considered the most feared ducked lightweight/welterweight of the era. even stanley ketchell wouldnt fight him. I dont see how holly can ever be rated above blackburn?

 

Kid Lavigne was as hard as Carmen Basillo and just as battered. He could hit incredibly hard for his weight and take a punch like a block of wood, and was scientific to boot.

This article by Mike Casey gives you a good feel for Lavigne as a fighter.

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/casey/MC_Lavigne.htm

 

While I understand that Blackburn won the series with Holly, I feel that Holly built up a better overall body of work (perhaps due to Blackburn going to prison).

There are a lot of what ifs with Blackburn.

What if he had not gone to prison.

What if you could put his brain in Joe Louis's body.

 

dont need to. Blackburn was extremley tall(5'10 1/2) and had a very long reach for a lightweight. he was a freak of nature for weight class



I think blackburns body of work was better. He beat sam langford, and joe gans in one of there early meetings, beat dave holly at least 3 out of 4 meetings, and also beat a fair list of respectable contenders(those who would actually fight him) before going to prison. its not his fault he was so feared, battling nelson refused to get in the ring with him. even washed up, he gave the great much bigger harry greb the fight of his life!!! I just dont think holly did enough to wash away the fact blackburn got the clear upperhand on him in 4-5 meetings.


ill post an article for you on blackburn,

 

Look forward to reading it.

This might even merit a thread.

This is a battle of two forgotten men.

Holly is just forgotten.

Blackburn is only remembered for training Joe Louis which was his swan song.