The 2011 inductees into the HOF will be announced at 1 PM Tomorr

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by hhascup, Dec 6, 2010.


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  1. hhascup

    hhascup Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Boy, am I glad you brought this up. Actually, Jack Root was one of my last choices and for the 1st time since I have been voting, a boxer from either the Modern or Old-Timers Division got in without my vote, and that was Dave Shade. I just thought there were 10 others that were more qualified.
     
    hhascup, Dec 9, 2010
    hhascup, Dec 9, 2010
    #61
  2. Brickhaus

    Brickhaus Packs the house Full Member

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    Thanks for the input. Nice to see we have a voter on here, and that the voter is actually knowledgeable.
     
    Brickhaus, Dec 9, 2010
    Brickhaus, Dec 9, 2010
    #62
  3. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I get the impression that Root's status as the inaugural light heavyweight champion gave him substantial historical stature through his long retirement, and while there were those still among the living who remembered him as a flesh and blood competitor. 1961 is a fairly early entry for the Ring BHOF. I suspect some voters may have seen their approval as a counterweight to his former recognition being buried by an avalanche of an additional half century of time.

    Shade was a formidable contender, but just couldn't nudge over the top. Dropped once for the count by body shots while still a four round teen, and had to quit with a hand injury against Walker in 1921, but not stopped in his other 247 fights. Competed on even terms with Britton and Walker multiple times when they were on top of the roost at 147. Only 17 stoppage wins, but at least one of them, Jimmy Slattery in three, does stand out. He did push Walker to a championship distance SD when Mickey was coming off of Greb. He didn't get a title shot rematch at Pete Latzo, who he also had battled on even terms. Nor did he get a MW shot at Walker.

    Handled Ace Hudkins pretty well in 1930, but then paid for going to the UK to take on Len Harvey. Counting newspaper decisions, 154-28-63 over nearly 18 years is a good looking record on paper by modern standards, but not exorbitant by the measures of his own era. He was really a four round fighter over the first two years of his career, encompassing around 85 fights. I don't know whether or not I would have voted for him, but don't object to his inclusion.
     
    Duodenum, Dec 9, 2010
    Duodenum, Dec 9, 2010
    #63
  4. hhascup

    hhascup Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Very well put !
     
    hhascup, Dec 9, 2010
    hhascup, Dec 9, 2010
    #64
  5. boza81

    boza81 Member Full Member

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    Tszyu is the only one of the three modern inductees who I feel shouldn't have gotten in on the first ballot. Chavez's accomplishment were much greater, and he beat a much better calibier of opponents than Tszyu. Tszyu did unify the junior welterweight division, but examine his quality of opposition. Plus, he got smoked by Vince Phillips and Hatton.
     
    boza81, Dec 12, 2010
    boza81, Dec 12, 2010
    #65
  6. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fair enough. Chavez got my vote. Tyson would have ....next year.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 13, 2010
    Stonehands89, Dec 13, 2010
    #66
  7. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What boxing logic puts Tszyu in on the first ballot, and fails to include a
    Georgie Abrams, who I saw give Marcel Cerdan a hard close battle in 1946. ? Or exclude a Dave Shade or Eddie Booker, both who would have licked Tszyu, hands down. !!! Doesn,t make sense to my way of thinking ...
     
    burt bienstock, Dec 13, 2010
    burt bienstock, Dec 13, 2010
    #67
  8. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Burt, my suspicion is that there's an element of marketing involved, as Tszyu can be expected to be in attendance. Not saying I agree with it, as the presence of Tyson alone can trigger sufficient publicity.

    It seems apparent however that you approve of Shade's entry into the hall. Again, now's the time to make the case for the likes of Abrams and Booker for 2012. (Heck, political candidates are already gearing up for 2012, so why not undertake the case for IBHOF inclusion starting now?)
     
    Duodenum, Dec 13, 2010
    Duodenum, Dec 13, 2010
    #68
  9. hhascup

    hhascup Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Every year they pick 3 boxers to go into the HOF, and then they add another 3 for the next year to the ballot to bring it back to 45 boxers. Next year we have Tommy Hearns as one, so that just leaves 2 more. Booker was never rated higher then #2 in the World. Guys like World Title holders Gus Lesnevich and Tony DeMarco aren't even on the ballot, and they were both Champions. There a lot more World Champions that aren't on the ballot too.

    BWAA Information Sheet​

    Here’s a list of all the Modern Boxers that were nominated along with the weight Classes they were rated in, by Ring Magazine, Plus the first and last month they were rated and the total amount of Months they were rated.

    + Extra special issues where they included ratings in 1994 (1), 1995 (1), 1996 (1), 1997 (1), 1998 (1), 1999 (1), 2004 (2), 2005 (2)

    - Missing Issues where there were no ratings: Jan/1984, Nov/1984, Jan/1987, Apr/1989, June/1989, Jul/1989, Aug/1989, Sept/1989, Oct/1989, Nov/1989, Dec/1989

    Also, I used 200+ for the Heavyweight Class.

    First Time Nominees​
    1. Julio Cesar Chavez – 130/147 – 8/84 to 12/99 – 177 Months + -
    2. Kostya Tszyu – 140 – 3/93 to 9/06 – 170 Months +
    3. Mike Tyson – 200+ - 10/86 to 6/04 – 146 Months + -

    Return Nominees ​
    4. Horacio Acavallo – 112 – 3/59 to 9/68 – 84 Months
    5. Georgie Abrams – 160 – 8/38 to 10/47 – 55 Months
    6. Joey Archer – 160 – 3/63 to 5/67 – 51 Months
    7. Jose Becerra – 118 – 6/57 to 2/61 – 43 Months
    8. Johnny Bratton – 135/147 – 6/46 to 2/55 – 67 Months
    9. Jimmy Carruthers – 118 – 8/51 to 6/54 – 35 Months
    10. Donald Curry – 147/160 – 5/82 to 1/91 – 99 Months -
    11. Hiroyuki Ebihara – 112 – 1/63 to 3/70 – 84 Months
    12. Tommy Farr – 200+ - 7/37 to 2/41 – 36 Months
    13. Tiger Jack Fox – 175/200+ - 6/37 to 11/44 – 36 Months
    14. Ceferino Garcia – 147/160 – 4/32 to 2/43 – 91 Months
    15. Betulio Gonzalez – 112 – 2/70 to 3/82 – 136 Months
    16. Yoko Gushiken – 112 – 1/77 to 9/81 – 57 Months
    17. Naseem Hamed - 118/126 – 10/94 to 9/03 – 100 Months +
    18. Carlos Hernandez – 135/140 – 5/60 to 7/71 – 116 Months
    19. Harry Jeffra – 118/126 – 2/37 to 8/45 – 72 Months
    20. Rafael Herrera – 118 – 1/71 to 10/75 – 58 Months
    21. Al Hostak – 160 – 10/37 to 4/48 – 52 Months
    22. Peter Kane – 112/118 – 9/36 to 10/48 – 99 Months
    23. Cocoa Kid – 135/147/160 – 10/33 to 4/47 – 86 Months
    24. Pone Kingpetch – 112 – 3/57 to 3/67 – 115 Months
    25. Tippy Larkin – 135/147 – 10/38 to 1/50 – 69 Months
    26. Santos Laciar – 112/118 – 6/81 to 4/90 – 76 Months
    27. Jose Legra – 126/130 – 7/66 to 3/74 – 89 Months
    28. Miguel Lora – 118 – 2/85 to 2/90 – 52 Months -
    29. Raul Macias – 118 – 1/54 to 11/58 – 59 Months
    30. Ernesto Marcel – 126 – 3/71 to 3/75 – 41 Months
    31. Freddie Mills – 175 – 9/42 to 5/50 – 89 Months
    32. Rinty Monaghan – 112 – 2/40 to 5/50 – 59 Months
    33. Masao Ohba – 112 – 3/70 to 4/73 – 38 Months
    34. Sven Ottke – 168 – 2/99 to 7/04 – 67 Months
    35. Ken Overlin – 160/175 – 6/34 to 2/45 – 87 Months
    36. Gustave Roth – 160/175 – 3/35 to 2/39 – 2 Months
    37. Lou Salica – 118 – 7/34 to 2/45 – 116 Months
    38. Dave Sands – 160/175 – 2/47 to 9/52 – 64 Months
    39. Petey Scalzo – 126/135 – 3/38 to 2/44 – 43 Months
    40, Samuel Serrano – 130 – 3/74 to 3/84 – 112 Months
    41. Yoshio Shirai – 112 – 2/52 to 2/56 – 44 Months
    42. Kid Tunero – 160 – 3/33 to 2/44 – 38 Months
    43. Wilfredo Vazquez – 118/126 – 1/88 to 7/99 – 98 Months
    44. Myung Woo Yuh – 108/112 – 2/86 to 12/93 – 66 Months
    45. Hilario Zapata – 112 – 6/80 to 3/89 – 91 Months


    Also, Eddie Booker - 147-175 - 4/39 to 2/45 - 21 Months
     
    hhascup, Dec 13, 2010
    hhascup, Dec 13, 2010
    #69
  10. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    i really hope how long a fighter was rated by ring is not one of the key deciding factors for many.
     
    lora, Dec 13, 2010
    lora, Dec 13, 2010
    #70
  11. hhascup

    hhascup Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's just another thing to go by. Like I said, there 45 boxer listed on the Modern ballot and I believe there 3 people that actually pick who is on the ballot. I believe that if a boxer only gets a very small percentage of the votes, and there is no way he is going to get in, he should be taken off and make room for some others.
     
    hhascup, Dec 13, 2010
    hhascup, Dec 13, 2010
    #71
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