Hello all, I'm still relatively new to this forum and I really appreciate all the quality responses on many of the forum topics. It's rewarding to know there are people who can talk about this sport seriously. People who use insults to get their points across I tend to ignore. Here's my list of the 5 best shorter heavyweights of all time. #1 Mike Tyson. He was a fighter that had power in both hands, comparable to George Foreman and Earnie Shavers. He beat everyone put in front of him in his early career. The boxing world was robbed of three great years that might have put Tyson arguably interchangeable within the top three heavyweights of all time on anyone's list with Ali and Jack Johnson. The Holyfield, Lewis and Ruddock fights should have all happened during his exile. Tyson might have beaten Morrison and Riddick Bowe too if these fights ever happened. No other heavyweight boxer under 6 feet had the hand speed of Tyson. Only Floyd Patterson was marginally quicker as a smaller boxer who didn't hit nowhere near as hard. In declince, his one punch right hand KO of Frans Botha, after arguably losing most of the rounds is still impressive. Even at his worst in the loss against Douglas, the controversy is there when Tyson had him down in the eighth round. #2 Joe Frazier. Frazier could easily be #1 on this list but the main reason why I have Frazier slightly behind Tyson is the fact that Tyson had a better right hand then Frazier. IMO, Frazier has the best left hook of all time and he still had a good enough right hand that rocked Ali a couple of times in the FOTC II, and Manilla. Frazier didn't have equal power in both hands and he was a converted southpaw. Another factor is of course the blowout by George Foreman. I know that I'm in the minority that believe Frazier could beat Foreman at or near his prime weight of 204 - 207 lbs. One quality that Frazier has ahead of nearly every heavyweight is his stamina. Only Marciano might have had more. Dr Ferdie Pacheco in the "greatest fights ever" broadcast, mentioned Joe Frazier having the greatest amount of stamina." No other heavyweight fighter put more pressure on his opponent than Joe Frazier from round 1 to round 15. #3 Rocky Marciano. Nothing can argue with perfection here and until someone betters what Rocky did, he'll always rank high on any list of shorter heavyweights. Marciano was one of the toughest heavyweights of all time and he had very good power in both hands. His win over Joe Louis is a signature point in his career but it's too bad it didn't happen a few years earlier when Louis wasn't too far past his prime. The factor that's most forgotten in Marciano's career was that trainer Goldman took a raw, marginally talented fighter and molded him into one of the greatest of all time. Marciano was known to have two left feet and Goldman fixed that problem enabling Marciano to maximize his power. #4 Floyd Patterson. Here's a shorter fighter that doesn't get enough credit for becoming the first two time heavyweight champion. Patterson is arguably the best pure boxer of the shorter heavweights and his jab if often considered one of the fastest from any weight class. Most of Mike Tyson's jab combinations come from the early peek-a-boo style D'amato used for Patterson. Too bad that Floyd didn't get a chance to fight Marciano in an ultimate showdown and I think he gets discredited because this fight didn't happen. It doesn't help either that he got destroyed twice by Sonny Liston. Patterson looked scared in both fights and seems like he had a mental lapse against Liston. I believe he could have performed a lot better against Liston but was probably beaten mentally before he stepped into the ring. Still, he fought Ali, Chuvalo, and many other in two prime eras of heayweight boxing. #5 Jerry Quarry. Many will question his inclusion on my list where other shorter heavweight fighters might be more deserving. Jerry Quarry is a fighter whose name I hear constantly, more than any other shorter heavyweight that he could have been the heavyweight champion in any other era. Remember, Quarry had to fight the likes of Ali, Frazier, Norton, Shavers and Floyd Patterson. Also, on more than one occasion there has been mention of Quarry sparring with George Foreman and beating him convincingly in these sessions. I don't know if this is one of the factors why Quarry vs Foreman never happened, but it's not like I haven't heard this claim before. HONOURABLE MENTION Jack Dempsey. Some may say that I'm a big fool because Dempsey probably belongs at #1 ahead of Tyson, Frazier and Marciano. My reason for him not making my top five is because he didn't defend against the top black contender of the time, Harry Wills, no excuses. Also, an aging Jack Johnson called him out after spending jail time and that fight never happened. Another factor is the questioning of Dempsey's gloves. I'm sure this has been argued over and over again but why would Jess Willard stand firm in his belief to the day he died that Dempsey's gloves were loaded. Fight doctors that I've also spoken to will conclude that the damage associated with Willards injuries aren't consistent from normal punching. Sure, Dempsey's power might have been abnormal and freakish for his time, but I find it hard to believe his gloves caused all that damage.
Nice to meet you. I think Sam Langford is owed a mention. The guy was 5' 6'' and perhaps beat as many world class heavyweights as anybody in history. Tom Sharkey at 5' 8'' at least deserves an honourable mention. Tommy Burns at 5' 7'' should get a mention also.
At what height does a heavyweight cease being short? Jack Dempsey was 6'-1", just like Sonny Liston. Does that make Liston a "short" heavyweight too?
After Douglas burst the bubble and laid the blueprint for defeating him? I think not. And Johnson isn't that high on my list anyhow. You contradict yourself but at least you correct it. The Botha win wasn't that impressive and the only controversy reouglas was invented by Don King. Tyson was thoroughly beaten in that fight. I'd take Byrd also as a short pure boxer. For his era, Jack Johnson (6-1), also, though he was not considered short in his day. Dempsey twice signed documents to fight Wills so don't hold that aginast him. Plus, Wills- while good- was not in the class of Dempsey. Likewise, the Willard rumor of plastered wraps was long ago discounted. The actual wraps used in the fight were presented, tested and had no presence of plaster. He hit like a mule and Willard was reeling defenseless for 3 minutes while Dempsey pounded him. But more protean to this argument, Dempsey at 6-1 was not short for his time.
I think it depends on the decade. 6'1" in Liston day was taller than average, but not by much. Today, fighters 6'1" and under are short in the heavyweight divison.
Great list! You have a solid list of fighters there. When I read the title of this thread, I immediately started thinking of fighters who were real short for heavyweight - like 5'9-5'11" - and I never really thought about Jerry Quarry or Floyd Patterson - guys who were both around 6-feet I think. My list might have an honorable mention section which would probably include guys like David Tua and even Oscar Bonavena who was around 5'10".
I find it funny how so many people paint Sonny Liston as this giant monster, when in fact he was only about 1" taller than Joe Frazier, maybe less. I think Liston was actually 6'0 even without shoes; that's what his prison record states.
Marciano 5"11, Frazier 5"11,Tyson 5"11 give or take a hair of an inch ...Tommy Burns 5"7 San Langford 5"7 Roberto Duran 5"7, James Toney 5"9, Dwight Quawi 5"7,
How about "Two-Ton" Tony Galento. He was short, and if you weren't world-class, he just beat the fire out you. And if Louis had stayed down, he would have been Champeen.