The 60's Ali. Could he get away with a low guard today?

As usual, a very perceptive well-written post Duo.

 

I agree with every letter of this post abraq!:good If you want to find a vulnerability in Ali you have your best chance with a small, very quick and elusive fighter, who carries an exceptionally high punch output.

Lewis and Bowe would have a terrible time with 60s Ali.

 

I cant see what difference the decade makes,and the majority of the big men around dont seem to have the skill of the older fighters to me,Ali got away with technical deficiences because he had a singular talent ,he had the legs to "float out of distance before he could be caught.Fast smaller heavies sometimes landed on him with a heavy shot ,but rarely two or more at a time,how often was he caught with a combo?.Ali did some things wrong ,according to the book ,he pulled back from punches,often in a straight line ,kept his hands low ,when he was younger he used to "salute "with his right when he got tagged with a left hook ,Ali is like RJJnr,his god given talent let him get away with text book flaws ,,fighters that have these gifts ,and rely on reflexes and speed ,are capable of making good fighters look ordinary ,so that their oppossition is often underated ,its only when age ,erodes their reflexes and speed that we see their faults ,and the ohles in their defence,and of course they start to get hit more,imo Ali would make the majority of fighters in any era look ploding,who today do you think exposes his weaknesses technically?

 

Tyson would struggle to catch him, quit mentally like he always does when things dont really go his way, and get stopped under a barrage of lightning quick jabs and straight rights that he just cant avoid, probably late in the fight.

 

:roll: :roll:

Cooper and Frazier can reach Ali but Tyson cant right.


80s Tyson would be a nightmare for Ali because Tyson is one of the few fighters that Ali cannot outspeed.

Tyson was specifically trained to hunt down guys who tried to dance away and beat him from a distance.

The 80s was filled with wannabe Alis.

And before someone mentions Douglas.

Douglas beat a Tyson not at his best with jabbing and then clinching to stiffle Tysons offence NOT with dancing and jabbing.

Ali low guard and moving straight back from a punch would play right into Tysons hands who had the speed and left hook to make Ali pay for that fundamental flaw.

I still pick Ali to win but it would be a very hard fight for him

 

Ali/Clay was 4 years from his peak (as close as he got due to the exile) vs Cooper and slightly past it, heavier, slower and far less mobile vs Frazier.

Douglas can comprehensively outbox Tyson yet Ali can't?

Ali would indeed outspeed him for significant periods.

Yes, lets all compare Tubbs and Biggs with peak Ali.

Very true, "wannabe" being the VERY operative word.

Already have without first reading your post this far.

And like Ali couldn't clinch. Yes early Ali didn't need nor do it much but don't think he can't have improvised IF needed.

He'd be an awesome opponent for sure, but of course the same implies in reverse. While Ali didn't face anyone with Tyson's exact intangibles Tyson sure never faced an Ali either.

Totally agree on both counts. I made this reply as i read your post bit by bit without first having read the Larry Lot. As i went along i thought you were yet another Tyson hugger but now realise you are simply looking for Tyson to get his fair due, as i often do when i think he is hard done by. I will leave my post exactly as it stands for sheer real time impact but will give you kudo's for both your post and your stance. Excellent stuff mate.

:good

 

tnx

It has always been my believe that dancing and jabbing was NOT the best tactic. to fight Tyson because

1 He expected it because everyone tried it

2 Tyson was trained by D'Amato specifically to beat Holmes and other fighters who tried to play the outside game.

3 Tyson footwork was to good and Tyson was to fast to elude him for long .


The best strategy against 80s Tyson was to fight then clinch to break up his rythm then figth again then clinch again.

Playing the outside game does'nt work against a guy with Tysons footwork and speed .

60 Ali vs 80s Tyson is a 60-40 fight in favor of Ali.

Tyson is one of the few hws who has the footwork and speed to match Ali.

 

Fair enough bro, fair enough

:good

 

Ali was 31 for the first Norton fight ,and weighed 221 he wasnt in his prime condition wise for this fight ,as he proved by scaling 212 for the rematch ,he took Norton ,who was rated 7th lightly and paid the price,6 months later he was 9 lbs lighter.Ali was 34 when he fought Lyle and with his style ,that depended so much on reflexes ,that was old.Ali was 35 for the Young fight and weighed 230 ,too heavy forhim. Against Holmes Ali had nothing,but I agree Holmes would give him trouble any time,but then who would have an easy time against a prime Holmes?
Bowe would be a difficult fight for anyone same as Holmes,Wlad ,I actually think is inferioir to his brother,though I am in the minority.Lewis the same as Holmes and Bowe a hard fight for anyone whatever their technical abilities,size doesnt get the job done if you havent the required mobility ,and I dont see any of these ,with the exception of Holmes ,having anywhere near parity with Ali for foot work.

 

A few years ago, it would have spelt trouble aginst guys like Tyson and Lewis, for sure. I'm positive the Ali nut-huggers won't agree with this, instead consigning Tyson and Lewis to the level of Williams and Mildenberger.

 

But remember Lewis, Holmes, Klitschko, and Bowe are all top-class fighters. They already proved their greatness. It is true that the division is currently experiencing a radical transformation in terms of overall size, but while the aforementioned persons' rankings are influenced by reach, height and weight, they're not dependent on it. They are skilled heavyweights any way you cut it.

The problem is you're pitting Ali against the very best of recent times, and rashly attributing the increased level of difficulty to the modern generation. These men were not a product of their era. They are stand-outs. Why not mention Nikolay Valuev? The fact that he is neither fast nor skilled, as I'm sure you'd agree, enough to trouble Ali should tell you that this period of boxing is not improving as drastically as you thought.

If you hadn't brought it up first, I could have conversely asked the people of this forum if Ali would be in deep waters against the more cagey fighters of decades past. With Frazier, I at least have point of reference.

 

Who are the supermen that would have taken advantage of Ali's low guard after 1980? Maybe Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Moorer, Lewis, either Klitschko? There is no-one else in the last 30 years that would have any chance. None of the above guys would start favourite against Ali.