the '67 heavyweight tournament - what if?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by red cobra, Jan 3, 2010.


  1. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

    38,042
    7,542
    Jul 28, 2004
    In '67 an ambitious tournament was set up by the WBA to ultimately find a successor to the deposed champ Muhammad Ali, who just beginning his 3 years of exile. The match-ups were set up as such:
    Jimmy Ellis vs Leotis Martin: winner- Jimmy Ellis by 9th round tko
    Thad Spencer vs Ernie Terrell: winner- Thad Spencer by 12 round decision
    Oscar Bonavena vs Karl Mildenberger: winner- Oscar Bonavana by 12 round decision.
    Jerry Quarry vs Floyd Patterson: winner- Jerry Quarry by 12 round decision
    The semi-finals went like this:
    Jimmy Ellis vs Oscar Bonavena: winner Jimmy Ellis by 12 round decision
    Jerry Quarry vs Thad Spencer: winner Jerry Quarry by 12th round tko
    And the final:
    Jimmy Ellis vs Jerry Quarry: winner and crowned new WBA Heavyweight Champion....Jimmy Ellis!!!
    Now, my question is this...how might have heavyweight boxing history have been changed if the initial match-ups been different? Bearing in mind that we're talking about the same selected fighters..only matched against different guys than who they originally fought in the initial stage of the tournament. Certain fighters were glaringly omitted from the tournament from the beginning, such as Joe Frazier, who refused to take part, and Sonny Liston, George Chuvalo and Buster Mathis, who just weren't "invited"..
    So, I guess, to get the ball rolling, let's start with these match-ups, and proceed from there, and if anyone else has a more intrigueing set of match-ups, then by all means, let's see 'em..
    Jimmy Ellis vs Ernie Terrell
    Leotis Martin vs Jerry Quarry
    Thad Spencer vs Oscar Bonavena
    Floyd Patterson vs Karl Mildenberger
     
  2. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

    12,059
    3,559
    Dec 18, 2004
    All the underdogs won in that tournament.
     
  3. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

    38,042
    7,542
    Jul 28, 2004
    Thread saving attempt #1.
     
  4. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,088
    8,485
    Jul 17, 2009
    I always rated Terrel higher than Ellis. Ernie would have taken it on points. Quarry would have beaten Spencer,and Mildenberger may have upset Floyd.
     
  5. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

    7,054
    376
    Dec 19, 2009
    I always felt Patterson should have prevailed, but oh well.

    I would have liked to have seen Machen and Folley in this BTW.
     
  6. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,088
    8,485
    Jul 17, 2009
    Sonny Liston would still have been competitive in that tournament.
     
  7. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,476
    7,223
    May 18, 2006
    :lol:
    Interesting thread actually (nothing worse than typing out a big arsed new post that you've sweated over,just to be ignored).

    Ellis vs Terrell-I reckon Ellis had the skills and activity to out score and out box the taller Terrell.

    Quarry vs Martin-Martin hit hard but Quarry was teak tough as we know and his ability to duke it out at mid range and counter punch would see him prevail by TKO late.

    Spencer vs Bonavena-I know Spencer beat Terrell but I doubt he really earnt a spot in this tournament tbh.Anyway I think Bonavena as crude as he was had the chin and strength to wade in and give Spencer a good going over for a wiiide UD.

    Patterson vs Mildenberger-Patterson was past his best but he was still formidable.Mildenberger whilst he did O.K against Ali would get whipped here.Floyd still had great handspeed,threw accurate punches with good power and had a great record of disposing of lesser opponents.And make no mistake Mildenberger was the lesser fighter here.I think Patterson takes this by K.O in 4.
     
  8. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

    38,042
    7,542
    Jul 28, 2004
    All good posts...(and not just because I'm glad that somebody noticed this thread-lol) because actually, it's possible that someone other than Ellis could have won this tournament if the matchups were different..you know-styles make fights.
     
  9. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

    38,042
    7,542
    Jul 28, 2004
    Actually, I agree with your picks here..
     
  10. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

    38,042
    7,542
    Jul 28, 2004
    Well, thread saving attempt #2..it's really a bit more intreresting than the one billionth go at "Who's the Hardest Hitting Heavyweight" or "My Top 500 Fighters"...
     
  11. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

    38,034
    90
    Nov 10, 2008
    Interesting thread but I cant comment on it as I dont know enough about the fighters.
     
  12. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,227
    1,247
    Feb 6, 2009
    yeah,he was avoided like the plague.joe frazier's mangement wanted nothing to do with him and rightly so:goodsonny was persona non grata by then though.
     
  13. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,476
    7,223
    May 18, 2006
    If we agree on Ellis,Quarry,Bonanvena and Patterson winning round 1 then who fights who in round 2??

    Come on I can feel a faint pulse for this thread yet, lets see how it plays out.:good
     
  14. Woller

    Woller Active Member Full Member

    1,372
    314
    Nov 24, 2005
    I agree on Ellis, Bonavena and Quarry, but I think that Mildenberger had a chance to beat Patterson. At that stage Mildenberger could have a few good fights left in him instead of being destroyed by Bonavena and Martin. As much as I love Floyd, he was fading at that point and Mildenberger could have won a decision against Floyd who sometimes fell asleep during fights and stopped working.

    Woller
     
  15. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

    38,042
    7,542
    Jul 28, 2004
    :lol::lol::thumbsup..Yeah there's hope yet...I guess at this point, you can play some creative matchmaking for the semi's based on who you think would have won the first matchups...I just thought I would lay back and see what scenarios you guys think would play out based on the second round of the tournament...I guess I would match up Ellis vs Patterson and Quarry vs Bonavena...who knows..maybe it would end up for the final just like it actually happened, but not necessarily..it would have been interesting if Liston, Mathis and Chuvalo were invited, but they weren't for some reason that only the WBA knew of, and Frazier elected to follow his own course, which involved Mathis, as we know, but I just though I'd confine the thread to the original participants of the tourney...for the sake of speculation..