The quality of the "Golden Age" of 70's heavyweights and the lost potential of the 80's compared to latter day heavyweight boxing is discussed often. What's not looked at with as much scrutiny is the modern day and 90's fighters that competed with the older, past prime remnants of the 70's and 80's. It's telling in many ways, how even mediocre fighters from the 80's could give absolute hell to the very best of the 90's and our current fighters. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Early in 1991, a quickly developing Riddick Bowe fought 80's gold medalist hopeful Tyrell Biggs. Biggs stunned Bowe several times and in general gave him a very, very tough fight before being stopped. Impressive considering Tyrell was on the slide after three back to back devestating losses, including a horrific beating at the hands of a cold and calculating Mike Tyson. A even more telling 80's vs. Bowe was the fight he had immediantly after Biggs, against a motivated Tony Tubbs. Many feel Tubb's outslicked Bowe, while others feel Bowe just barely edged it. Not bad considering Tubbs was a decade older then Bowe at 33 years of age. So, more or less, in Tubb's case at least we have a fighter who was never even one of the best of his decade potentially beating one of the very best fighters of the 90's. And until Tubb's was almost 50 himself he kept on fighting, supposedly embarassing fighters like Wladimir Klitschko routinely in training. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Mercer had several unfortunate run in's with fighters of the 70's and 80's where he was routnely made to look regular despite being a Olympic Gold Medallist, in his prime and in general one of the best fighters of the 90's. He was cleanly beaten against 80's journeymen Jesse Ferguson, and in their second fight seemingly could have won if not taking Mercer's in ring bribe offering and easing off. Ferguson was 37 years old at the time. Ray Mercer's fight against a ancient, 40 plus year old Holmes is well known and doesn't need much explanation. Lesser known is Mercer's fight against a old Tim Witherspoon, which I and the crowd present felt Witherspoon clearly edged. So Mercer, one of the 90's brightest, is 0-2 against two fighters who's careers started in the 1970's, along with another loss and a thrown fight against another 80's journeyman. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- And continuing the trend with Larry Holmes, a man who fought into the 21st century even after he was well past 50 years old. What he managed to do at that time in his career? Bring Brian Nielson to a razor thin SD loss in Nielson's home country, a fight that most feel Holmes edged. Nielson was no world beater, but nor is he the completely worthless bum some view him to be. In another razor thin lose during the 90's Holmes lost to Oliver McCall, who has a win over one of if not the best fighter of the 90's in Lennox Lewis, among other 90's notables like Akiwande, Saleta, Maskaev and Damiani. The overachieving B-Level fighter if there ever was one. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 70's and 80's mainstay Joe Bugner, despite never being very succesful in his prime decades prior fought until he was almost SIXTY years old, more or less as successful as he ever was. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- And Terrible Tim Witherspoon? Into the 90's he continued his winning ways against respectable opposition, including absolutely crushing Jorge Luis Gonzalez in the beating of a lifetime. Jorge is well known for having multiple wins over Bowe as an amateur, as well as Lennox Lewis. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- And the epitome of the 1980's fighter, Mike Tyson? A decade and a half removed from his prime in the year 2000 he destroys Andrew Golota in a handful of rounds, seriously injuring the Pole in the process. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The more I think about it the more it seems to be true. Whether due to the death of many actual experienced and invovled trainers who themselves were long time fighters, a shift in dedication and fighters applying themselves to the sport, or something else... Things do seem to of slipped to some degree. What other examples are there of fighters from the 70's and 80's causing hell in the 90's and beyond? And your thoughts?
Lewis and Holyfield where from the 80's of course. But this really just boils down to timeframes. When a guy turns pro & has an amatuer pedigree they usually crack the top 10 ratings in their third year as a pro. By the 4th or 5th year they have secured a title shot. Some develop faster and some develop slower & it certainly depends upon the trainer & matchmaker. Then they seem to have a prime of 3-4 years and then they start to slide down the other side of the mountain. This is when you usually see some more matchups with the C and B grade fighters so they can string together a winning streak. Now these guys are 8-11 years or so since they became a pro and there has been 1 or 2 additional cycles of up and comers doing the same thing. So now they are the cagey veteran. So by this time, the older fighter is fighting youth & not the old guys anymore. They might meet some contemporaries of theirs but not too many victories are over the 27 year old undefeated type guy. Not too many guys are highly effective 12 years after turning pro. A few have been, but the next 4 years certainly aren't easy one's if they continue to meet top 10 opposition or continue to have title defenses. But that's as long as the effectiveness goes and a bad losing streak or some bad ko losses abbreviates things.
Pure talent wise the 80s was the best HW era unfortunatelly besides Tyson and Holmes nearly all 80s HWS lacked the dedication to show their talent for more then one or two fights.
The talent pool of the heavyweight division, at least with regards to the American fighter can be directly tied to the NFL. The NFL began to explode in popularity in the 60s/70s and became America's premier sports league. The kids from that generation rather than take up boxing chose to become middle linebackers instead.
Jim Jeffries struggled with an old Fits. Jack Johnson took 15 rounds to beat an old Jeffries who was inactive for 6 years. Jess Willard fought an old Johnson over 40 rounds? A prime Bonavena was beaten by an old Patterson An old Machen beat a prime Quarry Holmes struggled with aging versions of Norton and Shavers A young Carl Williams was KO'd by an old Mike Weaver. Fighters today are still wrestling with an ancient James Toney.. Examples like these can be found in every era, and are not necessarily an indication of a steady decline with each generation. Experienced fighters who still feel like they have something to prove can often be a problem for younger, lesser seasoned hopfuls who are either unsuspecting or have a style thats taylor made for the older guy. The scenario is as old as boxing itself.
I have never bought this argument, at least not to the degree it is recognized as being a factor. The NFL has grown slightly in the number of teams and total roster spots during this explosion. Certainly that takes a slight number out of the US talent pool but not great numbers. Champs of the past have turned to boxing as a secondary career choice and still do. The bigger problem, of which this is symptomatic lies in the dissolution of American amateur programs. And at this point, I would argue that MMA- growing leaps and bounds in popularity and containing much more the demeanor of boxing- is infringing moreso on the talent pool of potential boxers. And to turn the argument on its head, where would Ali, Frazier or Holmes have fit on the gridiron? None of the three were particularly fleet of foot in the football sense. Nor were they devastatingly strong. Foreman, yeah, I could see him playing a bit but no guarantee that he would have made the pro's. You simply can not assume someone can attain that level just by the eye test. Were that the case, half a dozen guys in my gym would be playing in the NFL.