The advantages of fat

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by NEETzschean, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Member Full Member

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    Good post. Underestimation and intimidation are almost never simultaneous by definition but either are advantages. Extra pressure to win can be a motivating factor but I believe that the pressure greatly outweighs the motivation. Everyone who fights doesn't want to get beaten up and wants to win for a number of reasons but greatly increasing the pressure will tend to inhibit performance. And there's a flip side to motivation: you get less credit for beating a fat man than a man in shape. And while it's not absolutely certain that someone will take losing to a blubbery guy much harder than to a chiselled guy, it's overwhelmingly likely. The aesthetics of it for one look terrible and it's going to cost you more respect and hit you harder financially. You are going to be trolled more for it. This is a big part of why AJ's defeat to Ruiz was the most humiliating defeat of all time and had him breaking down in tears in his apartment eating ice cream for three days. As for narcissism, someone excessively worried about how they look is less worried than they should be about fighting. And narcissistic bodybuilders (or anyone really) don't take well to being humiliated by fat blobs like Ruiz.

    I don't think more sweat is a silly argument. It's marginal sure but it's harder to grip a very sweaty body, hence the fat athlete has another advantage in the clinch.

    Muscle is much harder to put on than fat and there's a far harder limit, so an athlete who spends a huge amount of time and energy lifting weights (also exposing himself to more injuries) does not have so much time, energy or health for boxing. The training regimen of a muscle-bound athlete is also more likely to be miserable and lead to burnout.

    I'm not talking about stripping your body of muscle and replacing it with fat: muscle clearly has many of its own advantages that are absolutely necessary for an athlete. But if you can put on 10-20 pounds of fat without compromising your speed, stamina or agility, why would you not do so as a heavyweight? It's virtually a pure advantage.
     
  2. VBOX

    VBOX JOURNEYMAN Full Member

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    I've gained some weight over the pandemic. I feel good reading this thread. I'm now in tip top fighting condition.
     
  3. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Two of the best chins and most powerful right hands in MMA


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    Team muscle are taking an absolute hammering here. Fat deniers are science deniers.
     
  4. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    To be perfectly frank with you, anyone who thinks muscle>>fat doesn't only not have a clue what they're talking about they're goddamn morons.
     
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  5. james5000

    james5000 2010's poster of the decade Full Member

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    I'd say reach and height are much more of an advantage in clinching..

    Short guys can't lean their weight on taller guys as well because of leverage.

    Reach helps you wrap your arms around
     
  6. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt ESB's own bitchy old Capote-cum-Runyon Full Member

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    :dunno There's a whole lotta quality boxing from straw through cruiser, suggest you check it out sometime.
     
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  7. tinman

    tinman Mexican Beef Full Member

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    The best p4p fighters are very lean. Because let's say you are natural 154 pounder like Erroll Spence. You can dry out and shed all possible fat to make 147 and beat up on naturally smaller men, which is what he does. Or you can get a little bit soft and have to fight at 160 and 168 where you will be fighting guys who are naturally bigger than you. It's not that being a little tubby inhibits your boxing ability in an absolute sense. Being fat makes a lesser p4p fighter. Because when you're fat you carry more weight and have to fight larger men.

    Being extremely lean doesnt offer much benefit in a boxing ring other than making a lower weight class.

    I'm not a boxer. And I admit the reason I like having 9-10% bodyfat is for mostly vanity purposes. It looks much better. When I'm 15% bodyfat I dont notice much difference day to day. Other than the fact I want to keep my shirt on whenever I step out in public.
     
  8. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I've always felt that a layer of body fat does no harm, if you can carry it.
    The advantages have been pointed out already, so no need to reiterate them.
     
  9. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I am glad you are calm, non-abusive & rational-it is disturbing to see an actual staff member calling everyone who disagrees with them "morons".
    Even in the example/photos above their is a mistake-those overweight guys also carry a lot of muscle, so it is not "team muscle vs. team fat".

    Some guys may well benefit from a moderate amount of fat due to their frame & strategy.
    But putting on fat almost always does compromise speed, stamina & agility.
    The question is whether in certain cases it is worth the trade off.
    Maybe for Ruiz it is, but he would almost certainly have faster feet, more endurance & a higher workrate IF he was not the 268 of his first fight with Joshua-while not being very tall or muscular for a HW-but more like 235.

    At that weight he would STILL have ~ 25% bodyfat.
    Don't you think that someone like him-& "Old Foreman" who against Morrison & Holyfield was likely ALSO ~ 25% BF at 256/257 lbs...
    Benefit from being a but overweight, but should not be ~ 1/3 BF or more?

    I am sorry, there is no correlation between being vain-& muscular or cut guys may not be, it could be somewhat their genetics &/or strategy-& not caring as much about, or working less on, boxing.

    Also as someone who hs lifted for decades, if you know what you are doing, have the right genetics, especially if you use PEDs (which i am strongly against): it need not take a great deal of time to put on, or certainly maintain, muscle.
    There may be some who overdo it, but the vast majority have trainers & advisors & do not lift so much/intensely that they do not have strength/time energy for boxing.

    But being out of shape-often correlated with having too much fat & not training anough-can limit the success of athletes.

    I think that it can seem humiliating to lose to a fat guy, but that does not prove where the balance is in motivation, intimidation, etc.

    The sweat thing-You admit it is marginal, & all who work hard in the clinch sweat, so that seems meaningless.

    But again just being heavier may help in the clinch.
    Bottom line is for *some* at HW, having some more-not too much-fat if they are in shape otherwise may be a better choice.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  10. Surrix

    Surrix Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Well, HW doesn't have weight ins limits, just minimal weight 200 lbs.
    Are you 221 or 220 lbs, 265 lbs or 260 lbs, you still are HW.
    Smaller weight classes does have max limits.
    In pros and high level amateur ranks boxers usually do all the best to weight in in lowest weight class possible for them or close to this.
    There we have boxers even 140 lbs and larger for 126 lbs division, not alone 130lbs and 135lbs division does have pretty large dudes.
    Some boxers cut even more weight than the same Usyk had done in CW or Huck.
    Like 209 lbs Huck, 199 lbs for weight ins CW.
     
  11. mirkofilipovic

    mirkofilipovic ESB Management Full Member

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    Fedor carried some weight around to help him beat larger fighters in the Open weight Heavy division. It helps him when attempting to grapple, his base becomes stronger with extra mass.
     
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  12. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    That's another thing about fat deniers.

    They're



    Notice how you very rarely see a muscular comedian and if you do certainly not any genuinely funny ones. However, there are lots of funny fat comedians.

    I wonder why Tyson Fury instinctively removes his top when he thinks it's about to kick off? Like he did that time when things got heated in the crowd between him and Chisora and during one of the pre-fight press conferences for one of his fights against The Tucaloser when they had that big brawl on the stage. He obviously removes it to show them his big flabby gut and love handles, duh, because he knows it will intimidate the hell out of them.
     
  13. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Fedor has an acute understanding of the huge advantages fat can give an athlete, especially for ones who compete in professional combat sports.
     
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  14. Ph33rknot

    Ph33rknot El gran campeĆ³n Mexicano Full Member

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    A little cushion that's all
     
  15. RJJFan

    RJJFan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    God knows Chris Byrd needs some fat. He's positively skeletal.

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